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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 16255
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Posted: 19 October 2018 at 3:06pm | IP Logged | 1
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Penultimate villain? PENTULTIMATE???
Doom is second to none!
Learn that now!!
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Richard White Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 28 August 2009 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1058
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Posted: 19 October 2018 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | 2
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For what it is worth I absolutely love JB's Wonder Woman run!
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Darren Taylor Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 22 April 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 6042
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Posted: 20 October 2018 at 5:11am | IP Logged | 3
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Johns good-sized run on Wonder Woman I bought in its entirety, as it came out.
Both Wonder Woman and the Next Men were the only two times that I can recall when it took me a while to 'tune-in' to the style of one of John's series.
As I write this I fail to quantify the reasons for that but there must have been some expectation that I carried of -what- was 'Byrne' art and these two titles pushed those limits for me but after a few issues I was marveling at the art.
John seems to give each series its own unique texture/ambiance and I both love and respect that. Which in no way says I will automatically jibe with it right away.
Like with MOS. When I picked that up, it was less the (let us be honest) flat out amazing artwork that threw me but it seemed the storytelling had changed from what I had grown accustomed to. It was like reading a great Terry Pratchett novel one day and Tolkien the next.
In saying this, I in no way mean to imply a change in the level of effort on John's part.
Rather than that what I observe is an artist in evolution and when something evolves it removes its self from one sphere of influence to another. Which rather suggests that there are some things that get left behind. Those that get left behind can resent both the loss of something they once enjoyed and also the rather static reflection, apparent in the perfect glossy mirror that is nostalgia.
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Leigh DJ Hunt Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 20 February 2008 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1570
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Posted: 20 October 2018 at 5:18am | IP Logged | 4
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It’s occurred to me, that even tho I am swearing up and down that I will not harm these characters, for many readers a “reset” would do exactly that. There were, for instance, those who were furious when I restored Magneto to his villainous ways in HIDDEN YEARS ------------------------------------------------------------ --------- That is a problem JB. I see lots of comments from people about how they don't like to see Magneto going back to being just a 'boring villain'. Doom has been used as a 'hero' for the last few years and I can imagine people complaining if he went back to his roots.
The more I think about it, I think even your non-hardcore fans want to see your art again on a Marvel book but I'm not sure your writing style would fit in right now with what the regular non-fan readers are currently used to.
Apart from one or two comics (Al Ewing's current Hulk book is a marvelous mixture of monster and horror book) there is a lot of just crazy dumb crap out there that is really popular. All the things that you dislike are there is spades. Take, de-uniqueness of characters. It is just getting ridiculous. (some SPOILERS for current books upcoming)
Look at Thor where he's travelled to the far future and found the only other people alive are Wolverine (inhabited by the Phoenix force) and Dr Doom (who has the powers of Iron Fist, Ghost Rider, Dr Strange and the Starbrand). Look at new hot writer Donny Cates who created Cosmic Ghost Rider who is...Frank Castle in the future who has kidnapped Thanos as a baby to try and kill him before he becomes what he is. Having multiples and clones and alternate versions and Older versions of characters is now the new normal, not the thing you'd see in What If?
No matter how Elsewhen a book is, can it really live in a comics world where this stuff is what people are used to seeing? Are people going to think that your type of good old-fashioned super-hero stories are just quaint? :(
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Eric Ladd Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 August 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 4504
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Posted: 20 October 2018 at 5:27am | IP Logged | 5
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I guess "ultimate" would have worked just fine.
To expand on Darren's thoughts, I've thought that JB not only considers the art of a book he is doing, but also considers the narrative style. Great analogy regarding Pratchett to Tolkien. The "voice" a book that JB writes is usually distinct. Frankly, I am curious to see and "hear" how an Elsewhen book would turn out.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 135073
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Posted: 20 October 2018 at 6:16am | IP Logged | 6
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Johns good-sized run on Wonder Woman...•• Longer than my original X-MEN run! ++++++ John seems to give each series its own unique texture/ambiance and I both love and respect that. Which in no way says I will automatically jibe with it right away. •• When I was a kid, Bob Kane was my favorite artist, by virtue of the fact that he drew my favorite character. Of course, I did not know "Bob Kane" was effectively a house name, and the real work was being done by many different artists. I just assumed, in my innocence, that "Kane" modified his style to fit each particular story. I noted that he kept what I considered his best style for the annuals, presumably since they were special. I had no way of knowing, back then, that the annuals were reprints, and the best "Bob Kane" was actually Dick Sprang. (Coincidentally, he'd drawn the first Batman story I'd ever read, which probably helped cement his as the best style.) In any case, this planted a nearly subconscious need in my brain -- a need to give each project I worked on its own visual identity.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 135073
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Posted: 20 October 2018 at 6:24am | IP Logged | 7
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I see lots of comments from people about how they don't like to see Magneto going back to being just a 'boring villain'. Doom has been used as a 'hero' for the last few years and I can imagine people complaining if he went back to his roots. •• A Magneto who is a "boring villain" is a Magneto who is being written poorly. +++ Look at Thor where he's travelled to the far future and found the only other people alive are Wolverine (inhabited by the Phoenix force) and Dr Doom (who has the powers of Iron Fist, Ghost Rider, Dr Strange and the Starbrand). Look at new hot writer Donny Cates who created Cosmic Ghost Rider who is...Frank Castle in the future who has kidnapped Thanos as a baby to try and kill him before he becomes what he is. Having multiples and clones and alternate versions and Older versions of characters is now the new normal, not the thing you'd see in What If? •• "Every issue is the first issue for someone" is apparently an alien concept, these days. Whenever I write exposition, there are invariably complaints. “We already know this!” cry the dwindling audience, as they wonder why they dwindle.
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Oliver Denker Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 18 August 2018 Location: Germany Posts: 228
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Posted: 20 October 2018 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | 8
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"Look at Thor where he's travelled to the far future and found the only other people alive are Wolverine (inhabited by the Phoenix force) and Dr Doom (who has the powers of Iron Fist, Ghost Rider, Dr Strange and the Starbrand). Look at new hot writer Donny Cates who created Cosmic Ghost Rider who is...Frank Castle in the future who has kidnapped Thanos as a baby to try and kill him before he becomes what he is. Having multiples and clones and alternate versions and Older versions of characters is now the new normal, not the thing you'd see in What If?"
What? Man, I don't regret having stopped reading Marvel.
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Joseph Greathouse Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 August 2015 Location: United States Posts: 594
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Posted: 20 October 2018 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | 9
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"I can imagine people complaining if he went back to his roots."
Of course they will. It's important to remember that while every issue is somebody's first, every issue is also somebody's favorite.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 135073
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Posted: 20 October 2018 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | 10
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Yes, I did get a letter to SUPERMAN excoriating me for leaving out an incredibly important character—Beppo the Supermonkey.
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Bill Dowling Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 07 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2182
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Posted: 21 October 2018 at 7:04am | IP Logged | 11
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It seems to me if someone thinks JB’s X-Men work was perfect and his Wonder Woman work was sketchy, that person is a Terry Austin fan, not a JB fan.
I’ve always liked more rough-looking inks on JB’s art than a more polished line.
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Wallace Sellars Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 01 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 17770
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Posted: 21 October 2018 at 8:37am | IP Logged | 12
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As much as I like JB's UNCANNY X-MEN run, and love his FANTASTIC FOUR work, his art on books like COLD WAR and DOOMSDAY.1 is waaay better to my eyes than the older work. Heck, there's a pretty big jump in skill between the FF and JBNM!
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