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Topic: Slugfest: Inside The Epic 50-Year Battle Between Marvel And DC Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 03 June 2018 at 11:49am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Wow, what a book:





I've just finished reading this most compelling book. Illusions well and truly shattered.

No spoilers (well, maybe one or two), but the book does what it says on the tin. It provides a potted history of the early years of DC and Marvel before going on to cover their rivalry. There are numerous anecdotes, quotes and links to interviews that have taken place, giving the book a credibility (the Kindle version will show an anecdote/quote, you click on it and it takes you to the references at the back).

I didn't realise how brutal the "war" was at times. It's a miracle collaborations such as SUPERMAN VS THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN ever happened.

There were certain occurrences which I can only describe as being akin to "industrial espionage", and it seems like the two companies have had a near-permanent game of one-upmanship.

It does feel like, depending on who the editor-in-chief was, it was either a "friendly rivalry" (e.g. Stan Lee) or something much more bitter. 

I am wondering, sources and links aside, whether some anecdotes are apocryphal, e.g. a golf game that led to discussions about the JLA, which then led to the FF being created.

I will say this - and I hate doing this - but if (and like I said, some are a matter of public record) certain things are true about two individuals in particular, then what they did and said seems very mean-spirited - and that's an understatement. Some of what has been recounted is incontestable, I actually do remember reading some interviews with those individuals, and it did seem very "below the belt".

When I read editorials from the likes of Stan Lee, the rivalry always seemed friendly, like there was a deep mutual respect even when things were heated, but in the modern era, it seems to be extremely adversarial and nasty.

Folks, this is a compelling read. If anyone has read it, or does read it, I would appreciate any views. 
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Paul Kimball
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Posted: 03 June 2018 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

haven't read it but based on what you've said, I"ll check it out.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 03 June 2018 at 12:13pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

sigh
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 03 June 2018 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I know, I know, it's not a read that will enrich my life, and peeking behind the curtain can shatter all sorts of illusions, but I did take away some interesting nuggets, anyway (I didn't know a JLA/Avengers crossover had been planned as early as the 80s, for instance).
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 03 June 2018 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Is Reed Tucker a nom-de-plume? All I can find as to credentials are that he's a writer based in NY.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 03 June 2018 at 12:46pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I haven't checked out whether that is his real name or not, Rebecca. :)
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Dave Kopperman
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Posted: 03 June 2018 at 12:53pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

 JB wrote:
sigh

JB: now that you've been on the ground as a key figure through a frequently documented moment in cultural history and feel that so much of what has been written is at best inaccurate and at worst anti-hagiography (to coin a term), does it make you more questioning of other types of historical writing and biographies?


Edited by Dave Kopperman on 03 June 2018 at 12:53pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 03 June 2018 at 1:28pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Interesting you should ask that, Dave. Over the years, any time the gentlemen of the Press have touched upon me or any member of my family, usually quite a bit has been wrong.

A few years back, a former editor showed me some pages from his autobiography, specifically those concerning me. The two excepts were recycling old rumors, both of which were false.

And, of course, there was the time a "fellow professional" was "reporting" falsehoods about me, and even after I brought in a witness to correct him, he said he intended to continue telling the stories.

It does sometimes make me wonder about what I read about "important" stuff.

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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 03 June 2018 at 1:42pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I wouldn't want to read something nasty about Dick Giordano in such a book. I can't imagine what would ever make him seriously angry as he was such a positive guy and loved his job(s). I guess before him it was Carmine Infantino in charge at DC and he went and worked for Marvel as an artist for quite awhile, so I'm thinking the rivalries were still friendly in the '80s to early '90s. I can well imagine there might be behind the scenes business deals that would cut off something from another company (okay, I definitely know there was). I have read Marvel Comics The Untold Story by a Sean Howe (it was in our local library), again thinking maybe a pen name as there was some dirt, but it actually cleared up and made better a couple of things I had heard that bothered me (in regard to Kirby but were not true or not as true as I'd been led to think). A lot of the dirt and bad feelings in the comic business really started with The Comics Journal I think. The old 'controversies sell' maxim, let's get so-and-so in who's been fired to call names and whine. Given stories I've heard about Mr. Groth I wouldn't put it past him to have plied some of the interview subjects with loosening agents (and I don't mean ex-lax).

So I wouldn't buy books like this, I don't want to feed this kind of sensationalized conflict, even if all true, but I did support the Comics Journal for years. :^(


Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 03 June 2018 at 1:44pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 03 June 2018 at 2:10pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

BTW, that cover looks like something that would have been concocted in the Seventies, when comics were at a particularly low ebb of public esteem.
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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 03 June 2018 at 10:09pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

"(I didn't know a JLA/Avengers crossover had been planned as early as the 80s, for instance"

--

Here's some Perez artwork from the unpublished crossover: LINK
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Rebecca Jansen
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Posted: 03 June 2018 at 11:02pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

That one seems to have been some kind of bad blood Jim Shooter had with George Perez. From the outside I think I might understand a little more now about the comings and goings of artists while Shooter was writing The Avengers. Perez returned to the comic after Shooter was no longer writing it and just before leaving for DC and Justice League. Mr. Giordano seems at most puzzled but still willing to see things worked out and even admits to something that might've been his fault. Justice League #200 came out really well with a lot of different artists and Perez doing the framing structure. At the same time the story and character points Shooter makes are hard to disagree with if they were valid at the time, characters change which is a lot of the trouble.

I guess I was wrong though about there not being much tension back then. I don't see that Mr. Giordano's "editorial style" as mentioned had anything to do with the crossover book not happening though.
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