Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum Page of 4 Next >>
Topic: Why The Constant Renumbering? Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
Posted: 09 March 2018 at 7:30pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

As a kid, although the issue number on the front of the comic was not the be-all and end-all, I did get a vague sense of history when I picked up my something like BATMAN #309 (where Batman fought Blockbuster during Xmas).

Although the content was the most important thing, at the back of my mind, the high number indicated to me that the comic had been around a long time ago - and that my father/stepfather may well have read an early issue. Same with other titles.

Go into a UK comic store now and you'll see that 2000 AD has reached its 2071st issue (although they are called "Programs"). I don't know, it's just nice to know that a title has many, many issues under its belt. It's something to be proud of.

I will never equate a high number with quality, not totally. It's quite possible that a title with hundreds of issues under its belt may have had several bad stories. It's not impossible. But judged as a run, I think any comic that can run for so long must be doing something right.

So, with the sense of history, and the number of issues under its belt, something like BATMAN #309 was a pleasing issue to buy.

Now, I'd wager that the renumbering we saw in the 90s was Marvel pandering to the speculators. But what is the reason now? I am genuinely baffled. Aren't the speculators gone? Didn't they move on to some other pursuit?

I did quite like it when Marvel reverted to old numbering in recent months, e.g. it was a pleasure to pick up DAREDEVIL #598. There's that sense of history again. But, for reasons that are alien to me, after a matter of months, Marvel is going to regress back to renumbering. New 'first' issues will be on the shelves soon.

So, why are comic companies (some of them) doing it still? If the speculators are gone, and we've had umpteen renumberings already, what can possibly be gained from doing it again and again? I am genuinely bewildered, folks.

Because, as it stands, and I guess Marvel is the main "offender", I see little point in having any sort of numbering system if Marvel are going to keep switching between original numbering and 'first' issues. It's getting tiresome. And it's getting confusing. Try searching for Wolverine #1 on eBay or via comiXology. Good luck with it. Put a catheter in if you do because you'll be there a long time. But I'm sure it'll take seconds to search for DAREDEVIL #598. 

I bet you they will revert back to original numbering again soon - and then regress back to 'first' issues. It seems pointless, counter-productive and absurd. They may as well abolish numbering altogether and just have day/date/month on the cover (some British comics, like ROY OF THE ROVERS, eventually just had a date on them).

Someone on Twitter did tell me that 'first' issues gain new readers. Fine. But do they KEEP new readers? It's all well and good if ten thousand "John Does" (and "Jane Does") pick up a 'first' issue, but if they don't become regular readers, then constant renumbering seems a futile, alienating exercise. 

And is there evidence for that, anyway? BATMAN #309 (a standalone) tale was not off-putting to me at all. I didn't think I needed to catch up on 308 issues. I honestly don't think it'd have been more of a hook if it had rebooted as a #1 (this was in 1979). I do feel that this whole "A new #1 will attract countless readers" has about as much credibility as Noah's Ark. If someone can provide evidence that first issues are attracting new readers, well as someone who follows logic when he can, I will definitely read it.

At the moment, though, I just see this constant renumbering, and it's been going on since the 90s, as baffling. If the speculators are gone, and if there is no evidence that it attracts new readers, exactly why are they doing it? That's not a rhetorical question, I have definitely reached the stage of being confused.


Edited by Robbie Parry on 09 March 2018 at 7:31pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133339
Posted: 09 March 2018 at 7:52pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Speculators care not a whiff about stories, unless they are "events". It isn't the story that makes ACTION COMICS 1 so "valuable". It's that magic Number One. So speculators want first issues because they think they will be worth lots of money.

Speculators are not very bright.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Hogan
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2061
Posted: 09 March 2018 at 8:06pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

And now for the ironic part of our program: For us non-speculator readers, a #1 issue used to be thought of as a good "jumping on" point; since a number of writers fail to heed the adage that "every issue is someone's first," we bought a #1 hoping that there would be less of a need to have to decipher strata of arcana imbedded in the book. However, now the state of comic writing is such that reading a first issue can often be even more confusing!
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
Posted: 09 March 2018 at 8:24pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

It's something like the stock market from what I understand, as in there are various people and entities with standing orders for more of anything with an #1 on it than other numbers.

I don't want to get picky, but Action Comics #1, 1938 is so valuable for two major reasons... first superhero period of course, but there was a coloring contest page that was often either colored or completely gone... thus a complete copy in any kind of decent condition is really something. I'd rather have Marvel Comics #1 myself, but actually I'd rather just have reprints so I can read the comics and enjoy them without devaluing the fragile things.

It is really bloody hard for the average person who might want to try something to sort out all these volume numbers that distinguish various #1s from each other. Mind you, a volume number was needed for titles like Ka-Zar as early as 1981! And then sometimes a mini-series doesn't count as a 'volume'. Arghh. The first time I saw 'Collector's Item' on something was on a Cracked in the mid 1970s and the slogan was almost instantly meaningless.

I think I made the point before that in Japan the actual whole number is in fine print in some indicia buried at the back, and on the front you will see the number 1 on every title's first issue of a year... weeklies have 52 numbers in a year, a monthly 12, and a bi-monthly 6. Then they collect up stuff in small paperbacks that stay in print ideally and which have volume numbering from 1 onward where vol. 1 will start with the very first story..


Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 09 March 2018 at 8:28pm
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Mark McKay
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2261
Posted: 09 March 2018 at 10:24pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I think it’s a bigger feat to make something like issue 137 of a series memorable, famous and valuable, than it is to launch a newly numbered version of the series.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11300
Posted: 10 March 2018 at 1:37am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Now they`re trying to have their cake and eat it, as we
approach landmark high hundreds issues! All the constant
`First` issue numbering has devalued the cache of a
first issue anyway.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2366
Posted: 10 March 2018 at 2:28am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

So many of these things--#1's, foil covers, "In this issue, someone dies!" blurbs--are all to fool the uninitiated (speculators, kids, new readers).  Unfortunately, these days, there are no uninitiated.  All that's left are the "initiated" and these things tend to tick off and eventually drive them away.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
Posted: 10 March 2018 at 4:35am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

It's just a mess. And I feel, although this may be overthinking, that it paints Marvel as an indecisive company. To return to new 'first' issues MONTHS after reverting to old numbering shows a company that wants to have its cake and eat it, a company that can't seem to make a decision and stick with it. 

That doesn't really inspire confidence. Again, I may be overthinking it, but all I see is a company that does not know what do do at times.

Although it is selfish of me, I'd love to chat with someone at Marvel and tell them how this constant renumbering is making it hard to search for back issues - or even current issues (if you wish to order Thor #1, be sure it's the right Thor #1, e.g. the upcoming one and not one from years ago). 

A non-fan/civilian I know, who dips in now and again, has commented on how absurd it is. He usually sends me a FB message such as, "What, Marvel are renumbering again?" And another FB friend, who I have met in real life, told me that it was a complete waste of time Marvel reverting back to old numbering - and that she doesn't want to read titles from a company that she feels is obsessed with gimmicks.

Either drop the numbers completely (just have month/year) or stick with something.


Back to Top profile | search
 
Matthew Wilkie
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 09 March 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1139
Posted: 10 March 2018 at 5:51am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

WALKING DEAD has got up to # 177 and sales continue to be good. No need for reverting to # 1 here (although I note that the current six-issue arc does have 1 of 6, and so on, on the front).

One could argue that it trades off the TV show but Marvel have the films which should have more impact. I argued on another thread that if the comics reflected the films (or the other way around) this would surely improve sales too although the WD TV series furrows its own path whilst referencing key plot points and this seems successful.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Dale Lerette
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 24 March 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 750
Posted: 10 March 2018 at 6:29am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I remember as a kid thinking Thor was a very special comic because it was so much older than the other comics, as far as it's numbering system was concerned. It wasn't until after a year or so I realized it had transitioned from Journey Into Mystery.

Edited by Dale Lerette on 10 March 2018 at 6:33am
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
Posted: 10 March 2018 at 7:05am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

 Matthew Wilkie wrote:
WALKING DEAD has got up to # 177 and sales continue to be good. No need for reverting to # 1 here (although I note that the current six-issue arc does have 1 of 6, and so on, on the front).

It's far better, and makes more sense, to have something like #1 of 6, not only as a jumping on point, but, well, because it's preferable. I bet no-one has trouble finding a particular issue of THE WALKING DEAD via comiXology.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11300
Posted: 10 March 2018 at 7:33am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

This is just my opinion, but my mate passed on to me the
latest issue of Marvel Previews yesterday, i find a lot
of the current art angular, cartoony and ugly. Where are
the modern Byrne, Perez, Davis and Simonson etc?
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 

Page of 4 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login