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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 08 March 2018 at 10:11am | IP Logged | 1
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Warren S: A couple of discussions...
RE: Green Lantern - even if he has a lantern on his costume, there's nothing else associated with a lantern regarding his powers. Except, as I noted below, Alan Scott's original ring was a tiny lantern on a ring setting.
And once we get to the interstellar Green Lantern corps, I guess Julie Schwartz wrote it from Hal's POV, not any passers by. It would have made one of those interesting back up stories... I guess he just never got to it.
RE: Superman wearing a lead suit - don't misunderstand my rationale for this topic. I was hoping for a stroll through speculation-land, that's all. Superman did indeed wear a suit of lead armor once or twice... with varying effect (Luthor anticipated him once, and created a mechanism that transformed lead into glass.) Kryptonite was such an inconsistent element that none of the readers could really be sure what would happen. I remember a couple fo ENTIRE STORIES where Superman was being exposed to Kryptonite and he didn't die before being rescued. A Supergirl story had Brainiac trapping her in a Kryptonite cage, then a ray that intensified the Kryptonite effect, and then Kryptonite gas on top of it - and she still escaped.
My idea for this topic was, "Green Lantern's power ring can't affect yellow*, but if someone was in a yellow car, the ring COULD throw some mud all over the car, and then grab it with no problem."
*Editor's Note: Due to a necessary impurity, Green Lantern's power rings is unable to affect the color yellow.
Jabari - I bought that issue of MTU and didn't regret it - although I will never understand why one of the greatest cross-company team ups wasn't hyped to the max in every outlet. Then again, the JLA/X-Men crossover didn't get hype either, so what do I know about selling comics?
Anyhow, that scene you pointed out is disingenuous, and one of the cases where a character is using knowledge and perspective that the writer has but the hero would not. WE know how the characters are... Invincible does not (obviously.) And he seems to pick the oddest names. A couple are reasonable, but... Flag-Man? Does Cap's outfit REALLY look like an Ameican flag? D'ja think that "A" stands for flag? "America-Man" or "Mr. America" are reasonable. Flag-Man seems just silly. Fabio-Man - Again, the "S" on the chest stands for Fabio? "Bat-Woman" - what about Spider-Woman's outfit looks like a bat? "Black-Man" - I guess it depends on what era of history one is from to appreciate this one. From my perspective... I don't appreciate it at all.
And having spider abilities and calling oneself "Spider-Man" - this from a character called Invincible? Even if it's not true, there's more than a little ego in that sobriquet, no? I really like Invincible, but sometimes, Kirkman seems to wander a bit far afield.
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Jabari Lamar
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 October 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 350
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| Posted: 08 March 2018 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 2
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Eric Sofa wrote:
| RE: Green Lantern - even if he has a lantern on his costume, there's nothing else associated with a lantern regarding his powers. |
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Yes, that's what I'm saying. I think because we, the audience, are so familiar with it, it's hard for some to really think of how odd that name would sound if you don't know anything about the character's background.
Eric Sofer wrote:
| I bought that issue of MTU and didn't regret it - although I will never understand why one of the greatest cross-company team ups wasn't hyped to the max in every outlet. Then again, the JLA/X-Men crossover didn't get hype either, so what do I know about selling comics?. |
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Well, remember, at the time Robert Kirkman wasn't quite The "Robert Kirkman" that he is today. Invincible and Walking Dead were relatively successful indie comics, but outside of Marvel Zombies non of his Marvel work, including MTU, were exactly huge (although I personally loved Irredeemable Ant-Man). It was the launch of the Walking Dead TV show years later that really raised his profile. A team-up of this sort might be bigger new today.
Eric Sofer wrote:
| Anyhow, that scene you pointed out is disingenuous, and one of the cases where a character is using knowledge and perspective that the writer has but the hero would not. |
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Eh, I think you're ruining the joke by over-analyzing it. I just think its a funny bit.
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Brian Hague
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Joined: 14 November 2006
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| Posted: 08 March 2018 at 6:48pm | IP Logged | 3
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Interesting panel, Jabari. I haven't read any Invincible and I hate the character instantly based just on that. I'm certain I'm over-thinking it as well, but not one thing about that scene passes muster with me.
How long ago did Invincible meet Spider-Man and start insulting his name and lack of imagination? Did they meet outside on the doorstep? Because otherwise, this little pr*ck has been keeping that bit in his back pocket the whole way over to Avengers Mansion (Why is Spidey inviting someone over who just insulted him again?)
So it's been, what?, ten, fifteen minutes travel time maybe? And now Invincible has decided the best way to introduce himself to a roomful of people was to continue a joke they didn't hear the first part of and start insulting them. Absent any real context, he just assumes everyone in the room suffers Spidey's lack of imagination, and he's going to point that out to them all...
The second one he insults lunges forward at him with a collection of sharp objects in his hand, which the kid is able to correctly identify as claws, but he just keeps rattling off funny, funny names to call these strangers, because, psh! What can "Claw-Man" really do to someone who calls himself "Invincible?" And the last one is just racist. Luke Cage doesn't have anything else about him that's identifiable except his skin color, eh? Good call, Kirkman. I guess it is kind of funny that the kid outs himself as a racist within 30 seconds of meeting Luke.
I hate the whole series based on that one panel. That's one of the snottiest characters I've ever seen. I hope that's not supposed to be part of his charm.
Sorry if it ruins the joke, but wow, was that unpleasant.
Edited by Brian Hague on 08 March 2018 at 11:46pm
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Brian Hague
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| Posted: 08 March 2018 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | 4
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Here's a take on Green Lantern's name I haven't read yet here. If someone else has suggested this, I apologize, but the character... emits green light. Y'know, he shines light. Like a lantern. I don't get the DCU laughing up its collective sleeve or scratching their heads over this nearly as much as some seem to think they would.
Here's one they might wrestle with a bit more: Aquaman. Why is the guy's name half Latin and half English? On the other hand, who cares? It's cool and it gets the point across.
I once had a super-team idea where the characters went by a series of surnames and nicknames rather than super-heroic sobriquets. "Foster," "Baker," and so forth; just something to call one another in the field that served as identification without using their actual names. It made sense within the context of that team. I never thought it would be something fandom one day required of the genre to further dampen that whole "isn't this stuff silly?" vibe that hangs about our necks like an albatross.
I'm not saying you require such things, Jabari, or that anyone here necessarily does, but the names and costumes were all intended to be unusual and mysterious. Kids seem to get it. "Immediately explicable" was never really part of the formula.
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Jabari Lamar
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Joined: 18 October 2017
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| Posted: 08 March 2018 at 7:45pm | IP Logged | 5
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Brian Hague wrote:
| I'm certain I'm over-thinking it as well, |
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That is my opinion, yes.
Brian Hague wrote:
| And the last one is just racist. Luke Cage doesn't have anything else about him that's identifiable except his skin color, eh? |
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Yeah, that's the point, he has no identifiable "costume" on, so going by the joke that heroes in that universe call themselves __-Man, Invincible's guess was that Luke was "Black Man."
I'm Black, and I still think it's a funny bit. But then I personally think the word "racist" gets tossed around way too easily and often these days.
Brian Hague wrote:
| I'm not saying you require such things, Jabari, |
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Good, because I don't. But I am remembering why I mostly stopped posting on comic-book message boards. I think I'll just stick the movie forum here, from now on.
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Brian Hague
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| Posted: 09 March 2018 at 12:10am | IP Logged | 6
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Well, there goes another one... I'm batting a thousand this week.
Just in case you do check back in on this thread, Jabari, I was trying to come up with some term that essentially meant "casually racist," or "racist on a cultural level without the attendant, overt hatred," but I'm not certain what would properly convey that feeling. Lacking such a phrase at my fingertips, I did go ahead with "racist," because, well, looking at someone, seeing only their color, and then somehow feeling it okay to just blurt that out... well, seems kinda racist to me, regardless of how overused the accusation is these days.
In any case, I recommend giving the board another try. I'm just one of the hot-headed ones. I pretty much hate all of the attempted humor in the Giffen-DeMatteis run on JLI as well. And the Foglio/Barta Plastic Man mini-series? I'd burn 'em all if I could. Really, most of the people here are much nicer than I am. And they'll tell you that. They've certainly said as much to me. :-)
Ever see Buffy the Vampire Slayer? I stand with Cordy, "Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass." Everyone else here is much more civilized. Really, they are.
Edited by Brian Hague on 09 March 2018 at 12:20am
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Trevor Smith
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Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 09 March 2018 at 5:01am | IP Logged | 7
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"And the last one is just racist. Luke Cage doesn't have
anything else about him that's identifiable except his
skin color, eh?"
**
I found that one a little uncomfortable too. Especially
when kind of a cute little "yellow jacket" joke was
RIGHT THERE. Or if not that, "bandana man" or
"moustache man". There were just so many options there.
Also, today in forum spell check weirdness - "bandana"
is not recognized? How random.
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Wallace Sellars
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| Posted: 09 March 2018 at 7:01am | IP Logged | 8
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I found that one a little uncomfortable too. Especially
when kind of a cute little "yellow jacket" joke was
RIGHT THERE.
---
I'm a fan of INVINCIBLE, and have red the entire run.
That said, the "Black-Man" comment feels lazy to me.
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Warren Scott
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| Posted: 09 March 2018 at 8:04am | IP Logged | 9
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Jabari, I think you made an interesting observation and hope you won't be discouraged from commenting on superhero comics again. Robbie is right. People might wonder how GL got his name. I wonder if he ever explained it to any characters outside the JLA or Tom Kalkamu. It certainly wouldn't be to his benefit.
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Adam Schulman
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| Posted: 09 March 2018 at 10:58am | IP Logged | 10
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I don't get this. GL has a lantern emblem on his chest. So, he's "Green Lantern." It's not complicated, is it?
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 09 March 2018 at 11:21am | IP Logged | 11
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My idea for this topic was, "Green Lantern's power ring can't affect yellow*, but if someone was in a yellow car, the ring COULD throw some mud all over the car, and then grab it with no problem."••• "Green Lantern! Your power ring will not work on my yellow armor!" "Hm! Let me just drop Mount Rushmore on you!"
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Robbie Parry
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| Posted: 09 March 2018 at 11:58am | IP Logged | 12
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"Green Lantern! Your power ring will not work on my yellow armor!" "Hm! Let me just drop Mount Rushmore on you!" *** I actually did a variation on that with various GL toys I played with!
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