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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 06 March 2018 at 10:46am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Let's take that Superman analysis a step further. Replace "Superman" with "policeman."

Does anyone assume that a policeman has a secret identity? Possibly... he might be doing things that he doesn't want the public to know about. 

After a policeman's tasks are done for the shift, why wouldn't someone conclude that he's going to a home? Now, if this policeman were under investigation, someone might follow him home and see what he's up to at home. But a arsonist, for example, wouldn't be trying to find out where a policeman lives or his home life (aka "secret identity.")

Further, why would a normal person want to find out where the policeman lives and expose it? What good would come of it?

So, if I were living in context, I would know that Superman fights crime, natural disasters,etc... and when he's done, he goes to his super home - to relax, to study, to practice, to binge watch "Jessica Jones"... The ONLY reason I would need to know where Superman is in the off hours is if I had a crisis... and if I did, I might contact the Justice League first.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 06 March 2018 at 11:08am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Further, why would a normal person want to find out where the policeman lives and expose it? What good would come of it?
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If the policeman is world famous then it would be a way to increase readers/viewers for media organisations. There might be a number of responsible news organisations that would agree not to pursue this information for the greater good, but there would be lots that would just chase it for the $$$$ that they could get out of it.

Just look at the paparazzi.
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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 06 March 2018 at 8:19pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

It might be refreshing to have some kid, maybe, ask Superman if he has a house or gets to "not be Superman" sometimes. 

It could be a way of reminding readers that only they are privy to all the hidden stuff in Superman's life.

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I don't see the point. Honestly, this is just not something I think about when reading a Superman comic. People of Superman's world wondering who he "really is" or where he goes for "down time"...I don't see why this would make for a fun story.


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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 07 March 2018 at 10:00am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Adam, that would NOT make a fun story for a full comic. But it might be enlightening to today's "discerning comic reader" - and make the character richer in history and story. As opposed to making either Clark or Superman a paper doll, just somewhere to hang around while the other identity is doing important things.

It's kind of a shame that current readers need a slap in the face to be told, "HEY! Everyone in Superman's world does NOT know everything the reader does!" But subtlety appears to be a lost art.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 March 2018 at 11:07am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

One of my recurrent tussles with Chris, during the X-MEN days, was over secret identities. Every so often he'd start insisting that "everybody must know who they really are by now!"

My response was two-fold. First, the elapsed time was not the same for the characters as for the readers, so there was no "by now" involved.

Second, in context, unlike Superman, or Spider-Man, or most other superheroes, really, the X-Men did not have a large supporting cast with whom they hung around in both identities.

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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 07 March 2018 at 12:12pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Thanks, Eric, I think you got my point more clearly than Adam might have. It's not a story--it's an encounter. And it's a reminder to the reader that those in Superman's world do not know everything we readers do.

And JB makes a great point: the X-Men do have secret identities that hold up better than Superman's or Spider-Man's might because they're living at a school, they're rather socially isolated and who (besides their enemies or the military) would be wondering about their private lives?
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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 07 March 2018 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

 BrianHague wrote:
Jabari, your discussion with your friends is a common one in fandom, and I hope you don't mind my pointing out that it lacks an element of perspective.

Oh no, believe me, I’m not that type of fan. These discussions are just, y’know, fun.I totally get the concept Willing Suspension of Disbelief, and Conceits Of The Genre, and generally agree with the notion of when you find yourself seriously arguing that, for example, Batman should kill The Joker once and for all because The Joker just keeps coming back to kill more people, then that’s probably a sign to move on from the hobby. Or at least from that particular type of comic. So when I address various “unrealistic” things about comics, I’m usually doing it in the classic Marvel “No Prize” way, in which I try to make it work in my head, not to mock what doesn’t work.

Now I knew about the “Man of The Hour” tag, as I saw that in an arc of the old Sandman Mystery Theater series when Hourman appeared. Didn’t know about the meaning behind “Green Lantern.” Nevertheless, the point remains, as applies to the modern era. Most people won’t know what a “Green Lantern” stands for. So your average DCU citizens would likely think that’s a weird name,unless he’s publicly revealed that he uses a green lantern-shaped device to charge his ring. And I think with the modern Hourman they’ve now given him some kind of time-manipulation powers, so that name would fit him better.  

I never read it, so I don’t how she did it, but I recall an old interview with Gail Simone when she was about to revamp Jim Lee’s GEN 13 series, and she said she would address in the book why a teenager in the 2000’s would call himself “Grunge.” A name that made sense in the mid-90’s, but less so 10 years later.



Edited by Jabari Lamar on 07 March 2018 at 12:52pm
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 07 March 2018 at 2:34pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

One of my recurrent tussles with Chris, during the X-MEN days, was over secret identities. Every so often he'd start insisting that "everybody must know who they really are by now!"
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See, he was ahead of his time, prefiguring Marvel Studios blowing everyone's secret identities to smithereens :)

Reading about dealing with Chris Claremont sounds like herding cats in some ways, which is kind of amusing from where I'm sitting, but it was probably just an ongoing headache for you.


Edited by Peter Martin on 07 March 2018 at 2:34pm
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 07 March 2018 at 3:04pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

 Jabari Lamar wrote:
So your average DCU citizens would likely think that’s a weird name,unless he’s publicly revealed that he uses a green lantern-shaped device to charge his ring.

Well, us civilians have to deal with that. I mean, I'm still, 20+ years later, trying to figure out why World Championship Wrestling (WCW) had a bandaged wrestler (head to toe) called the Yeti. Mummies and yetis are two different things. That baffled me. ;-)

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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 07 March 2018 at 4:25pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Jabari - you make an interesting point about super hero names vs super hero abilities. In actuality, how many heroes DO have a representative super ID? The Spectre. Sandman. Flash. Hawkman. Johnny Quick. Captain America. The Human Torch. The Sub-Mariner. Plastic Man. Aquaman and Aqualad. Doll Man (if it was a bit demeaning.) Robotman. Starman, sort of. The Human Bomb. The Ray. The Whizzer. Into the Silver Age, not a lot more come to mind. The Creeper. Manhunter from Mars. The Atom (Ray Palmer... sort of.) Green Arrow. Kid Flash. The Elongated Man. Elasti-Girl.

I'll make a case that Green Lantern (Alan Scott) could pull it off, because the original power ring was a miniature lantern on a ring. But that's not the strongest case, to be sure.

And as an interesting aside... how many heroes just use their real names anyhow? Johnny Thunder (twice, actually.) Namor, sometimes. Ibis the Invincible. Uncle Sam. The original four (real) Guardians of the Galaxy.

Most super hero names have been either non-descriptive superlatives*, or non-descriptive (or only partly-descriptive) noms du guerre. Of course, to the common folk, what difference if Mr. Incredible is the one who shows up to save you, as long as he DOES save you?

I suppose I wonder, in context, how much information the standard citizen does have, and how much they SHOULD have. It's not as if they have a menu, trying to select the special of the day. "Let's see... we've got a mad bomber... mad bomber... well, this Human Bomb sounds familiar with such. Firebrand? Maybe not such a good idea. Oh, I hear good things about this Superman and this Wonder Woman... but I'm not sure if they're quite right without knowing exactly what they do. Oh, wait, this Flash person sounds as if he's fast enough to beat any bomb*. I'll choose him!" Whomever shows up is the one that does the job, and how - or why - should the public know so much about them?

But what did I read one character comment? "If I could walk through walls, I'd call myself cement! Why let anyone know?"

*Complete topic jump - anyone see 3/6's Flash? It was a REALLY good episode!
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Jabari Lamar
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Posted: 07 March 2018 at 4:48pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I'm reminded of this sequence in an issue of the last version of Marvel Team-Up, written by Robert Kirkman, before he went Image exclusive. He had his character, Invincible, travel to the Marvel Universe and meet Spider-Man. Invincible then tells Spider-Man that he thinks his name is "lazy." Saying you have spider powers so you call yourself Spider-Man? That was the best you could come up with?

And then later when Spider-Man introduces him to the Avengers...



I'm sorry, but "And, uh...Black Man?" cracks me up, everytime.
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Warren Scott
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Posted: 07 March 2018 at 11:10pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Jabari, the costume of the first Green Lantern, from the 1940s, included a green lantern in his emblem. And the emblem for Hal Jordan's Green Lantern uniform as drawn by Gil Kane (the character's first artist) sort of resembles a green lantern, though it is more of a stretch. And I can see where a lot of modern world residents wouldn't get the reference.
I didn't know about the green train signal but I did remember Alan Scott's lantern was supposed to resemble a train lantern.
The thing that bothered me in later years was that GL's alien peers all use the name Green Lantern, too. I mean, do they all have lanterns on their worlds? Perhaps that was explained somewhere.
And Superman did wear a lead suit in a couple of stories. But I have to agree with JB. Where do you go from there? Kryptonite was overused for a time but eliminating it isn't a very interesting plot point. I think JB came up with a better solution by limiting it.
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