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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 30 January 2018 at 7:58pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Geez, I don't recall ever reading a superhero story as a child and worrying that the title character was going to die.  Once I became aware of how comics worked (that there's a new issue each month or so featuring the same character) it became clear to me that they weren't going to kill the star of the book.  What made the stories dramatic to me was seeing how they would escape, not wondering if they would escape.  And as Rodrigo noted, there are so many ways to create dramatic tension beyond the possibility of death.

The notion that Superboy lacks "a sense of danger" because we know he's going to grow up to be Superman makes about as much sense to me as saying that Batman lacks a sense of danger because we know he's a fictional character, not a real person.  Neither of those things is something that would ever cross my mind when I'm reading a well-written story about either character.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 30 January 2018 at 8:05pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I remember "hypertime" making its debut with a montage that included a shot of the Superman/Frankenstein monster scene from GENERATIONS, ignoring the fact that the series was identified -- right on the covers!! -- as an "imaginary story".
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 30 January 2018 at 11:07pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

The new movie version of Superman ("THE MAN OF STEEL" and so on)--by showing the opposite--proved that Superboy made perfect sense!

WHY in the world would Superman wait until he was 33 to start using his powers to help people?  (The movie explained this--the Kevin Costner version of Jonathan Kent was a fearful man and passed that fear on to his son, the most powerful man in the world.  He starts off as a failure.  How many thousands of people died in the world because he was hiding for 20 or so years?)

Sure, the post-CRISIS Superman didn't wait quite that long to start his career, but, still, why wait at all?  Yes, we all enjoy that moment when Superman first reveals himself to the world (saving that plane in the first movie or the shuttle in JB's version), but there are always opportunities for moments.

Growing up with the Earth-One Superman, it made perfect sense to me that this man with incredible powers from childhood would not wait to start helping people.  (Spider-Man didn't.  Even hunted, the X-Men didn't.)  It even explains the brightly colored costume--something somewhat more reasonable for an idealistic kid to start wearing than a full-grown man who had just finished exploring the world.

It even made sense that the initially less powerful Earth-Two Superman WOULDN'T have a Superboy career.  He couldn't just fly away at the speed of light if government troops surrounded him.

How about a story where Luthor or Mr. Mxyzptlk made the world FORGET Superman's career as Superboy?  (At least temporarily.)  We could still have Superboy and the Legion AND still get that moment when Superman reveals himself to the world and gets all those headlines and meets Lois Lane for the first time.

And we would still have one of DC's top 5 or 6 (once) most popular and well-known characters.
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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 31 January 2018 at 7:50am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Eric J., a couple of ruminations on your post.

ITEM: In Mr. Byrne's MoS, it's explained perfectly - up through Clark's senior year of high school, he didn't have super powers. He had just learned that he could fly, and was at (if I might jump to conclusions) at a Captain America level of physical abilities rather than a Superman level of powers. Stronger, tougher, and faster than 'most anyone else, yes - but still at the very pinnacle of human achievement and just beginning to surpass that.

ITEM: Even had Clark had superior abilities and decided to use them... we don't see every story. It would make an interesting feature to see the transition eighteen year old Clark made to twenty-eight year old Clark was upon his debut as Superman. (Pre-Crisis, it was a backup-feature and mini-series called "The In-Between Years"... seemed like a good idea to me!)

ITEM: Remember something that no one (even DC) seems to recall... at the time of his debut, Clark - while amazing as a super hero - was nothing that hadn't been seen before. Dr. Fate, Wonder Woman, and Captain Comet (among others) all showed most of the powers that Clark had; he wasn't unique. Had he been a rogue, the above could have handled him easily, along with Green Lantern, Starman,etc.

That would have made for some fun stories in Action Comics, I think - young Clark getting tutelage from JSA heroes. Imagine what Dr. Mid-Nite could have taught him... not about powers, but about compassion, and using skills instead of powers, and street level super heroics.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 31 January 2018 at 8:38am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

ITEM: Remember something that no one (even DC) seems to recall... at the time of his debut, Clark - while amazing as a super hero - was nothing that hadn't been seen before. Dr. Fate, Wonder Woman, and Captain Comet (among others) all showed most of the powers that Clark had; he wasn't unique. Had he been a rogue, the above could have handled him easily, along with Green Lantern, Starman,etc.

••

One of the things for which I took the most flak on MAN OF STEEL was that "Superman isn't the FIRST any more!" This rather missed the point that constant expansions of DC's history meant Superman in the existing continuity had not been "first".

In many ways, I felt some fans were using MoS to vent their general annoyance with DC, and CRISIS in particular.

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Warren Scott
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Posted: 31 January 2018 at 10:22am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Sort of reiterating what has been said by a lot of people here, but - That's the problem with a lot of writers (and not just of comics). They think good storytelling is shocking the reader/viewer with some development, almost always or at least usually, the death of a character. Instead they could be keeping us wondering how a character will overcome an obstacle or where the plot will take us.

Edited by Warren Scott on 31 January 2018 at 10:23am
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 31 January 2018 at 12:00pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

"It would make an interesting feature to see the transition eighteen year old Clark made to twenty-eight year old Clark was upon his debut as Superman. (Pre-Crisis, it was a backup-feature and mini-series called "The In-Between Years"... seemed like a good idea to me!)"

Yeah, I thought that was a good idea too, but they hardly did anything with it.

It should be pointed out that the longest-running Superman TV show--SMALLVILLE--was basically "plain clothes" Superboy for its first five years, then "The In-Between Years" for its second five years.  Apparently, SOMEBODY thought the adventures of a young Superman was a good idea, and millions of viewers watched.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 31 January 2018 at 1:40pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

What I didn't like about SMALLVILLE was its contrivances to keep Clark in Smallville. His mother left home before he did!

There was one episode where other heroes, including Aquaman, had helped save the day. They wanted to form a league. Clark declined, telling them he had some issues to deal with. Those issues? Phantom Zone escapees. Well, I'm sure he could have helped form a league AND dealt with the escapees.

They also seemed to contrive him never wanting to even try and fly. 

Those aren't the only aspects I disliked. Jor-El was inconsistent, an autocratic dictator one moment, a benevolent figure the next. I didn't like the inconsistencies because they were there due to having to serve the plot. I'd have preferred them to stick with one version, either the autocrat dictator or benevolent figurehead. But it changed almost on a season by season basis.
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Andrew W. Farago
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Posted: 31 January 2018 at 4:44pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I wish that superhero comics weren't so hung up on life-or-death stakes, myself. Watching the Batman TV show or reading any number of superhero comics as a kid, it didn't much occur to me that the heroes might actually get killed, but I was on the edge of my seat just the same, waiting to see how they'd escape an unescapable trap and stop the bad guy.

I blame The Killing Joke for the attitude that the bodies have to pile up, the bad guys have to win almost as often as the good guys, and that the hero's friends and family are mostly there for collateral damage. "How's Superboy going to stop this guy?" ought to be enough for a good story, shouldn't it?
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 31 January 2018 at 7:39pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I watched the first two seasons of THE ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN about 3-4 years ago. Superman was rarely in danger in that series as his opponents were usually ordinary criminals.

Yet despite that, there was tension. One episode saw Lois Lane held hostage in a B&B by some crooks. It was a race against time for Clark Kent to find out exactly where she was in danger - and reach her.

A story where a hero's identity is in danger of being exposed, or has even been discovered by a villain, provides much tension without any need for death. The Joker unmasked Batman in a 60s tale and vowed to share the secret with the underworld. No death or destruction, but a gripping tale from start to finish as I wondered how Batman would protect his secret identity.

Death or the threat of death does not need to be a factor in every story.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 31 January 2018 at 8:42pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I may have to take a big ol' mea culpa for the obsession with death. Altho many origin stories featured a significant death, and the death of Gwenn Stacey created long lasting ripples, it was the death of Phoenix that set the bar. Suddenly everyone wanted to do their own version of that tale.

(Mea culpa again, vis Guardian.)

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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 31 January 2018 at 10:52pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I remember "hypertime" making its debut with a montage that included a shot of the Superman/Frankenstein monster scene from GENERATIONS, ignoring the fact that the series was identified -- right on the covers!! -- as an "imaginary story".

***

Yeah that was clearly a goof. There's also now officially an Earth-38 which is based on the world in GENERATIONS. (I hope it's only "based on"!)

I'm glad there's a DC multiverse again, but I don't get this "need" to designate so many old ELSEWORLDS stories as taking place on Earth-such-and-such. Most were "one and done," and many just weren't good stories at all. 

(I was particularly disappointed to discover that KINGDOM COME wasn't a possible future for the mainstream DCU anymore, but a story taking place on "Earth-22." Takes a little bit of "heft" out of the story.)

As for Hypertime -- as far as I can tell it's little different than Marvel's WHAT IF? stories. Some event happens or fails to happen depending on what timeline we're reading. 
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