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Vinny Valenti Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8119
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 8:34pm | IP Logged | 1
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"I was glad to hear that they killed that guy (tough luck to all the readers who had invested $150-200 to buy his fifty issues that no longer mattered!)."
---
And having John Romita Jr work on Superman, only to turn around and say that he basically didn't.
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Adam Schulman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017 Posts: 1717
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 9:22pm | IP Logged | 2
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Robbie, Connor is what they finally named "Subject 13" aka the Metropolis Kid aka Kon-El aka Superboy post-Death of Superman.
He grew up (a recurring theme today) at least by a few years, was revealed to be a genetic blend of Superman and Lex Luthor, and died in battle against Superman-Prime (I think).
He hasn't returned in the New52 but word is that he'll be coming back at some point, probably to pick a fight with Jon over the name Superboy.
***
Conner Kent, aka Kon-El, AKA Superboy, was revived in the LEGION OF THREE WORLDS mini-series (it was insider baseball, for the most part, but I'm not even that big of a Legion fan and I thought it was fun -- then again, it had George Perez artwork plus Superman).
There was a very, very different version of Kon-El that existed during the New 52 years but he's not just gone but forgotten.
A possible-future version of Conner just appeared in SUPERMAN, TEEN TITANS and SUPER-SONS (the Jon Kent-Damian Wayne team-up comic -- it's a very charming read, and Damian usually gets on my nerves). Nobody in the present on Earth-Zero (the mainstream DC Earth) remembers Conner. But he's out there somewhere, and I'm 100% he's coming back.
As is Bart Allen/Impluse. As is Cassie Sandsmark/Wonder Girl as we knew her circa 2004. Just wait a bit.
I hate to tell Robbie this but there are many versions of Superman on many parallel Earths. Some of them I even like. There's Calvin Ellis of Earth-23, the former president of the U.S. (he's Obama, but Kryptonian, basically). There's the Soviet Union Superman from SUPERMAN: RED SON, who pops up every now and then.
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 10:52pm | IP Logged | 3
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I can't help feeling the punchline to the Earth-23 character is a snickering, "See? He WASN'T born in this country!! Tee hee!!"
In any case, tying "Rebirth" into "Watchmen" is another sure sign that this reboot isn't built to last either. Huge, convoluted masses of events with reference points here, there, and everywhere to outside sources is not a road map to success.
Even if they did have their act together here, (and I don't believe any reader thinks DC isn't going back to the reboot trough again, and soon,) what about the sacred right every name creator now has to do a full-on, from the ground up, recreation of a corporate property as was done with Man of Steel? "Why did theyyyyyyy get to do it, and not meeeeee??"
I'm told Bendis is not actually restarting things all over again, but is playing the ball as it lies with the current "Rebirth" iteration, which is all to the good, but the marketing strategy itself being employed underscores how very, very much everyone who gets a crack at Superman wants to play "Man of Steel" with the character.
Even if, somehow, accidentally, they got it right at some point, they'd have to take it all down again, just for the fun of building the whole thing up again. It's beyond compulsive now.
DC should publish Superman on an Etch-a-Sketch.
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Adam Schulman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017 Posts: 1717
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 11:04pm | IP Logged | 4
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I can't help feeling the punchline to the Earth-23 character is a snickering, "See? He WASN'T born in this country!! Tee hee!!"
***
I promise, that wasn't at all what Grant Morrison was thinking. He made it clear it was a tribute of sorts. One might not like it but it wasn't a "diss."
As to DOOMSDAY CLOCK, I'm enjoying it. I was very, very skeptical. But Johns has clearly worked extremely hard on this one. And it shows.
And I'm someone who was until recently very sick of all things WATCHMEN (it was 30 years ago! Move on!). But so far I find it very, very compelling reading.
I'm honestly rather surprised that Marvel hasn't done a full-on reboot. Marvel is still such a mess that at the very least the Shaper of Worlds or someone of that Big Cosmic Level needs to step in and...reshape things. (Yes, JB has said this, and he's right.)
I don't think DOOMSDAY CLOCK is necessary reading if you're just picking up the "normal" DC books -- its effects will be felt, I've read, but it's not "required" reading to understand why, as Batman recently said, "history has been screwed up." (I'm quoting from memory.)
I very much agree with you about Bendis. "The singer before the song" yet again. I hope it's not too late for DC to change their mind about giving him yet another SUPERMAN #1. There could be a "sales bump" without that, I'm sure. (The same would've been true in 1986 even if there hadn't been another SUPERMAN #1. And with absolutely no disrespect meant to JB, there shouldn't have been.)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133324
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Posted: 08 February 2018 at 11:31pm | IP Logged | 5
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I hope it's not too late for DC to change their mind about giving him yet another SUPERMAN #1. There could be a "sales bump" without that, I'm sure. (The same would've been true in 1986 even if there hadn't been another SUPERMAN #1. And with absolutely no disrespect meant to JB, there shouldn't have been.)•• MAN OF STEEL was created so that the reboot could have a #1 issue, but the numbering would not change on SUPERMAN. Then, without my being told, the numbering was also changed on SUPERMAN. I guess the greed factor was just too great.
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Trevor Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 3542
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Posted: 09 February 2018 at 4:39am | IP Logged | 6
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"JB: And you can be sure DC will age the kid as close to real time as they can get! They just can't help themselves!"
**
I just can't understand why DC puts themselves in this position. Going way back to Marvel exploding on the scene with the FF, have DC not had that sort of stuffy, uncool, unhip vibe vs the (at the time) cool, hip Marvel? Why cater to that with your flagship character running around just a few years shy of being legitimately called "grampy"?
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 09 February 2018 at 5:49am | IP Logged | 7
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I would like to point out that I have no issue, and zero confusion, with "Elseworlds"-style characters. So a Superman born in the Soviet Union, or one from a parallel reality, is fine. Besides, such characters tend to be one-off personas. I presume there isn't an ongoing SUPERMAN: RED SON title, for example.
The problem I have is when there are multiple versions within a mainstream book/continuity.
Or, even worse, when the "have cake and eat it" approach is taken, e.g. combining various histories and consolidating it into one confusing direction. Or keeping back-up characters, e.g. the whole Connor Kent thing, Superman-Prime, etc.
Our host's Superman was uncluttered. Anyone could have jumped aboard. And if you handed the MOS mini-series to a person today, 31+ years after it was published, and told the person to enjoy it on its own merits, they would do. And if you then handed them some of our host's subsequent Superman issues, they, too, would be concise, uncluttered, simple, enjoyable, etc.
I guarantee that. I'm even willing to experiment and ask a non-reader to pick up a trade of MOS. I'll suggest it and ask them to come back to me if anything confuses them. I bet you any money that they WON'T be confused. They'd enjoy it on its own merits, and that would be fine.
Could I do the same with today's arcs? No. I bet a "civilian" would get confused if I handed then numerous CRISIS (modern CRISIS arcs) and told them to enjoy it. And if they read all of the super-related titles now, I bet they'd have a million questions.
The accessibility of 1986's MOS stands today. I don't think my mother has ever read a Superman comic, but she's seen the Reeve films no doubt; and has a cursory knowledge of the character. If I were to give her MOS, she'd no doubt enjoy it and find it accessible, uncluttered, etc. If I gave her numerous modern super titles, I'd be receiving questions about "all the Superman" and "Who's Connor?" It isn't accessible.
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Eric Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013 Location: United States Posts: 2365
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Posted: 09 February 2018 at 7:59am | IP Logged | 8
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I just bought my first new SUPERMAN comic (#40) in years. I saw it was written by James Robinson (who I like very much) and drawn by Doug Mahnke (who has really developed into a good artist). I thought I'd give it a shot.
It was Superman looking and acting a lot like I expect Superman to act, and he was teaching his son Jon about the anniversary of Krypton exploding. It had a good feel to it--I could easily imagine Curt Swan drawing the story. I may have to come back next month.
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Adam Schulman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017 Posts: 1717
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Posted: 09 February 2018 at 8:06am | IP Logged | 9
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Superboy-Prime was a villain. And he's been stuck on the Source Wall since 2011. I don't think he's coming back.
Superboy (Conner) used to have his own title in the 1990s and was part of Young Justice and then the early 2000s version of the Teen Titans.
That was about it, really. There aren't multiple versions of Superman within a mainstream book right now.
At least no more so than when the Earth-Two Superman was occasionally appearing in INFINITY INC., JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA, DC COMICS PRESENTS, ALL-STAR SQUADRON.
It's not so convoluted. "Jon Kent, son of Clark and Lois" isn't convoluted either. (It might not be a great idea, but it's easy to summarize.)
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Adam Schulman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017 Posts: 1717
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Posted: 09 February 2018 at 8:09am | IP Logged | 10
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By the way, I keep seeing references to "Superman-Prime." During a brief period in which it was unclear whether or not DC was going to be able to keep the name "Superboy," the young Clark Kent of Earth-Prime was somehow-or-other aged to adulthood and became "Superman-Prime." That didn't last very long and was over ten years ago.
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Eric Sofer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 4789
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Posted: 09 February 2018 at 10:13am | IP Logged | 11
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I am by no means on the inside, but I think that the Superboy clone was killed with much the same reasoning that Superboy-Prime became Superman-Prime. I THINK it would have been issues with the name "Superboy" being used and the lawsuit with the Shuster estate. I believe the same matter arose with the Legion of Super-Heroes cartoon... a very obviously teen-aged Clark Kent (and later, his 40th century counterpart) were called Superman.
I just desire that the man behind the curtain were a little better hidden. But maybe it's my fault for looking...
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Andrew Bitner Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7526
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Posted: 09 February 2018 at 10:55am | IP Logged | 12
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Thanks for the recap on Superboy, Adam! Is Superman-Prime in the Source Wall or was he left stranded back on his own Earth, where everyone knows he's a villain and he has no powers? In any event, he'll be back eventually. And thanks for clearing up "Calvin Ellis" (nice bit of wordplay), the Obama-Superman of Earth 23. I knew I'd gotten that wrong. :/
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