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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 27 January 2018 at 9:41am | IP Logged | 1
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Via Facebook:
I agree about letters pages. They provide a great snapshot of history, I enjoy reading comics from before I was born and getting a feel for how folk felt back then; even if it's not a classic issue, well if I pick up a G.I. JOE comic from 5-6 years ago, I want to read what people thought back then.
Really irks me when some say, "But we have message boards." Yes, and at one point, the DC message board was awful. Having to scroll through trolls' comments to find a good comment is irksome. Sure, there are some great forums - this one is such a forum - but this idea that letters pages aren't needed in the internet age is a bewildering one.
At least writing a letter involves effort. And hopefully a comic will provide a representative sample. I had to leave a MIAMI VICE forum because of constant trolling and cliques, I'd have much rather read letters about the show in a magazine or comic (if an MV comic was produced).
I also miss the likes of "Stan's Soapbox". Stan Lee was always very avuncular. And there was a community feel. About 10-13 years ago, DC titles were so clinical and corporate with boring ads and nothing engaging.
I think Gail Simone's words are wise.
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Eric Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013 Location: United States Posts: 2365
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Posted: 27 January 2018 at 10:00am | IP Logged | 2
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Everything Stan Lee did to increase and hold readership worked, whether it was his Soapbox, more friendly letters pages, funny credits and nicknames, and even the more conversational and entertaining narration he often did (even when the plot was serious, the narration could be fun).
He knew how to make YOU--the kid reader--feel like you were part of Marvel. Present-day Marvel doesn't seem to have learned any of the lessons he taught and, in fact, seems to be going out of their way to drive away loyal readers.
Sometimes, I'll go to a reprint edition to read the story, but I'll buy the original back issues to enjoy the letters pages! (Still a big thrill that I had TWO letters printed!)
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 27 January 2018 at 10:06am | IP Logged | 3
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You know my thoughts on letters pages, Eric. I haven't gravitated towards comiXology in the way I thought I would, given the lack of letters pages and "Stan's Soapbox".
DC was always a little more formal. If Marvel was the "avuncular uncle", DC was the "headteacher/principal". But I felt part of a community.
Our host did the same when he answered letters or shared comments in his various titles.
I don't feel part of a community.
"Ephemeral" was a good word for Gail Simone to use. She's right! Who's gonna remember a "Yup" or "Fuck you, troll!" in a message board that may disappear tomorrow. I was on an AIRWOLF forum years ago. Many great topics, great community. Disappeared one day. Domain name for sale, etc. At least if I pick up, say, a 1968 SUPERMAN comic, I can read the letters!
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Wallace Sellars Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 17699
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Posted: 27 January 2018 at 10:29am | IP Logged | 4
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I'm one for one on the letter front. I remember walking into Books Do Furnish a Room one Wednesday, and a gentleman behind the counter remarking that my letter had been printed in THE AVENGERS. (I can't recall the issue number, but it was by Alan Davis, Mark Farmer and Kurt Busiek, and was in response to the Avengers facing a hundred Hulks!)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133324
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Posted: 27 January 2018 at 10:29am | IP Logged | 5
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Everything Stan Lee did to increase and hold readership worked, whether it was his Soapbox, more friendly letters pages, funny credits and nicknames, and even the more conversational and entertaining narration he often did (even when the plot was serious, the narration could be fun).•• All forbidden now by ennui-engorged fanboys who are too "sophisticated" for such things.
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 27 January 2018 at 10:36am | IP Logged | 6
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All forbidden now by ennui-engorged fanboys who are too "sophisticated" for such things.
***
Whenever I read a "Stan's Soapbox", or your words in the likes of NEXT MEN, it felt like a "friend" was talking to me. I know it was one-way in a sense, but it *felt* friendly. It was like an informal clubhouse. I liked it.
Some modern comics (and I stress some) have very corporate editorials. Like one would read in an accountancy magazine.
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Eric Sofer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 4789
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Posted: 28 January 2018 at 10:36am | IP Logged | 7
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You have to play to your audience. ALWAYS. I don't expect Newsweek or the Wall Street Journal to have engaging editorials or letter pages, because their desired clientele simply aren't interested in that folderol; they are a business publication and their attitude is for businessmen.
Comic books are for entertainment. They should be ENTERTAINING. I understand that they have to sell the products, but that's what the Direct Currents page or Mighty Marvel Checklist part of Stan's Soapbox did. I remember when that section of DC Comics went all "business" (even if silly) or especially the double cover fold of Marvel Comics stopped being recaps and character descriptions - whether good or bad - and became DOUBLE PAGE ADS. And not even for comics! Yeah, I understand, they have to make money - but in quite so heavy handed a manner? Crap, I was almost expecting the Fantastic Four drink Pepsi, or Batman selecting Folger's as his coffee of choice to keep awake without jangling nerves on a stakeout.
While I hate the phrase "funny books", they ARE supposed to be fun.
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 29 January 2018 at 9:04am | IP Logged | 8
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Rather than set up a new thread, I'll share this here:
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133324
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Posted: 29 January 2018 at 10:26am | IP Logged | 9
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Rather than set up a new thread, I'll share this here:•• Reading the responses, we see the microcosm mentality in full effect: "That has not been MY experience, therefore it must be NO ONE'S experience."
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 29 January 2018 at 10:43am | IP Logged | 10
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Some replies are missing the point.
I was talking to someone the other day about how I discovered a Spider-Man comic at a stand within a railway station. A railway station. Totally spontaneous.
Although haphazard, the little store by me had a wide variety of comics, ACTION COMICS one month, THE INCREDIBLE HULK the next.
And I didn't realise the second Superman/Spider-Man comic existed until I saw it on the shelves. That was a surprise (I must have missed the ads for it somewhere).
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Eric Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013 Location: United States Posts: 2365
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Posted: 29 January 2018 at 11:09am | IP Logged | 11
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I'm old enough (or is it young enough?) to remember picking up comics that had two complete stories in every issue (ACTION COMICS and DETECTIVE COMICS spring to mind) or even five or six stories (DC's 60-centers or later dollar comics)--now it's five or six issues to get one story!
I'm not even one to hate "epics," but all the time, every time? Some of my all-time favorite stories are 17-page standalone MARVEL PREMIEREs or a solid BATMAN story (where he actually had to use his detective skills!).
You've got to have SOME entry for new readers! Make comics easy to find, make comics easy to read. You can't make it hard for new readers to even find a comic for sale and then make it impossible for them to understand what's happening in chapter 7 of a 13-part arc that's dependent on a company-wide "event" that's wiping away the continuity the last batch of new readers finally figured out!
Even Free Comic Book Day misses the mark a lot. Why not pay Paul Dini and Neal Adams to do an iconic 16-page BATMAN story and give THAT away? THAT would create some new comics fans instantly!
Edited by Eric Jansen on 29 January 2018 at 11:13am
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 29 January 2018 at 11:15am | IP Logged | 12
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My favourite "event" as a kid was "The Lazarus Affair", a four-part Batman tale where he, Robin, Catwoman and King Faraday all battled Ra's al Ghul. It felt epic at the time and was easy to follow.
Had they continued with four-part epics - and then six-part epics - I would not have been interested. I buy some back issues via comiXology, and it is nice to pick up complete stories.
I would feel burnt out by events all of the time. Less is more.
I sort of see a parallel with wrestling. We went from four/five PPV events a year to MONTHLY PPVs. RAW started as a one-hour show, now it's three hours. It's too much.
If a story needs six issues, that's fine. Or three (the Galactus arc probably was served best by three issues). But when the motivation is to do six-issue arcs purely to capitalise on trade sales, well I have a problem with that.
Edited by Robbie Parry on 29 January 2018 at 11:16am
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