| Author |
|
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
|
| Posted: 05 September 2017 at 3:00am | IP Logged | 1
|
post reply
|
|
I think a corporate reboot rather than a storyline reboot would have been more desirable. And should be done if they ever do it again.
I could have the semantics wrong, but a corporate reboot would be an executive simply stating that the books are starting anew (has a comic company ever done that sort of reboot?); a storyline reboot involves navel-gazing, continuity errors, etc. And, as history has shown, constant revisiting of such arcs. I'd like to see sales figures for the likes of INFINITE CRISIS and FINAL CRISIS. Was there a yearning from fandom for such events?
It's what stopped me revisiting DC in the 2000s. I am sure there were books, such as SCOOBY-DOO, which were fresh, but I saw so many references to an event that was then 18-20 years old. And I thought, why? It seemed like naval-gazing of the worst kind.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133324
|
| Posted: 05 September 2017 at 5:52am | IP Logged | 2
|
post reply
|
|
"Reboot" is maybe the worst word the Industry has leaned. It's a "Get Out of Jail Free" card that allows, nay encourages the "talent" to muck about doing whatever comes to mind, however irrational or destructive. "We can always reboot."
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2365
|
| Posted: 05 September 2017 at 5:58am | IP Logged | 3
|
post reply
|
|
"has a comic company ever done that sort of reboot?"
Isn't that basically what Silver Age Marvel and DC did?
Marvel did it by adopting a new name. Sure, there had been a couple of comics already with "Marvel" on the cover (PATSY WALKER and TWO-GUN KID, I believe), but basically Marvel was a brand new thing. It wasn't Timely of the 40's or even Atlas of the 50's--with FANTASTIC FOUR #1, Marvel was obviously a brand new thing. (A brand new thing that retroactively "adopted" the 40's characters and the 50's monster stories.)
DC/National never went away like Timely did, but there was obviously a brand new thing going on with the new Flash and combining the "old" heroes (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman) with the "new kids" (Barry Allen/Flash, Hal Jordan/Green Lantern, and J'onn J'onzz) in the Justice League of America. This was a softer "reboot" with the covers starting to look different, a renewed company-wide interaction, and then eventually even the old guard of Superman, Batman, and finally Wonder Woman got revamps that took them further away from their lingering Golden Age sensibilities and put them more in line with the new books.
But the company might have suffered from this "slow" relaunch/rebranding as books like HAWKMAN and THE ATOM got cancelled fairly soon while equivalent series like THOR or IRON MAN were nurtured over at Marvel.
Marvel keeps trying this "new name" kind of "reboot" with things like "the New Universe," the ULTIMATE line, and even MARVEL NOW!, and a couple of others--unfortunately, they keep trying to replace something we really liked with things that everybody likes less.
Edited by Eric Jansen on 05 September 2017 at 6:00am
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133324
|
| Posted: 05 September 2017 at 6:10am | IP Logged | 4
|
post reply
|
|
…there was obviously a brand new thing going on with the new Flash and combining the "old" heroes (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman) with the "new kids" (Barry Allen/Flash, Hal Jordan/Green Lantern, and J'onn J'onzz) in the Justice League of America…•• At the time, this was not viewed by the editorial offices as "a brand new thing". More like "Well, this worked before..." Note that THE FLASH even picked up the numbering of the original series.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2365
|
| Posted: 05 September 2017 at 10:29am | IP Logged | 5
|
post reply
|
|
Sure, but soon (after the new Flash) SHOWCASE would give us a new Green Lantern (who then segued into his own number 1), then Challengers of the Unknown, Metal Men, the Atom, and others--it was obvious that DC was no longer content to just have a stable of two or three big super-heroes. Just the very existence of SHOWCASE (and other anthologies suddenly introducing or reintroducing Hawkman and other super-hero features) must have been a clear signal that SOMETHING was going on!
Just not as clear a signal as over at Marvel where all the monster books were suddenly super-hero books.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2365
|
| Posted: 05 September 2017 at 10:33am | IP Logged | 6
|
post reply
|
|
Geez, I just realized--
Even from the 50's, DC has ALWAYS done a "half reboot"! Never starting totally fresh and never going the Marvel way (everything that happened in SPIDER-MAN #1 or FANTASTIC FOUR #1 still counts as canon) either.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133324
|
| Posted: 05 September 2017 at 10:49am | IP Logged | 7
|
post reply
|
|
Even from the 50's, DC has ALWAYS done a "half reboot"! Never starting totally fresh and never going the Marvel way (everything that happened in SPIDER-MAN #1 or FANTASTIC FOUR #1 still counts as canon) either.•• This is why CRISIS was such a BAD idea. SO many fans who simply could not accept that it's all what the writers say it is RIGHT NOW, and memorizing every comma of sixty years old comics accomplishes nothing. The greatest idiocy came when people (yes, more than one) wrote to ask if MAN OF STEEL was what Seigel and Shuster "intended". My response was yes, we had all been following a detailed "bible" they'd left behind. The July 1948 entry says "Around forty years from now hire some new hotshot writer/artist to restart the whole thing. (You might want to think about blowing EVERYTHING up before you do this!)"
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Warren Scott
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 July 2016
Posts: 201
|
| Posted: 05 September 2017 at 1:00pm | IP Logged | 8
|
post reply
|
|
JB has a point about undoing all of the "mucking around" that has been done with the characters.
Did anyone else notice the New 52 succeeded in undoing the marriage of Superman and Lois Lane without having them divorce, killing off Lois or having it be a dream?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Daniel Burke
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 November 2016
Posts: 100
|
| Posted: 05 September 2017 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | 9
|
post reply
|
|
Well the writer un-did the un-do for the super-marriage!
I don't recall who said this, maybe it was our host, but I recall someone once observing on this board the implications of the "fan turned pro" epidemic.
Essentially, they viewed the version of the character that they grew up with as the "right" one, and slowly (or quickly if allowed) brought those elements back.Such as when Loeb took over the Superbooks in 2000 and slowly brought back as much of the silver age as he could.
No one was clamoring for Barry Allen's return, but the Head Writer in Charge grew up with Barry Allen, he was the "correct" Flash... so back he came too.
Now we have writers putting back the versions of characters they grew up with, in their mind I suspect, getting the "right" version back in place.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133324
|
| Posted: 05 September 2017 at 7:35pm | IP Logged | 10
|
post reply
|
|
If someone gave me the keys to either kingdom, Marvel or DC, I would lock all the writers and editors in a room and demand they work out which period was best for each character. As Lord God Almighty I would have final say, of course. Then, with the details worked out, the Universe would relaunch* (all in one month, no protracted "events") with all these "best of" versions existing at the same time. If this meant altered timelines for some, that would neither be acknowledged nor explained. This would be REDO, and everything would begin afresh from that point. Every issue would be a "jumping on point", as would every subsequent issue. First person to try to sneak in past continuity would face a firing squad at dawn! --------------- * In the months leading up to this all the creative teams would be given time to wrap up their storylines, but not end the characters. (No "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?") And wrapping up would mean getting everything cleaned up and tidy, not running self-indulgent filler and dumping everything into one issue!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8119
|
| Posted: 05 September 2017 at 9:17pm | IP Logged | 11
|
post reply
|
|
Seems to work fine for movie reboots, why not comics?
There was never an explanation given for how we got from Maguire to Garfield to Holland as Spider-Man, nor from Clooney to Bale to Affleck for Batman.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017
Posts: 1717
|
| Posted: 06 September 2017 at 12:29am | IP Logged | 12
|
post reply
|
|
DC REBIRTH seems less like a reboot and more like a "de-boot," in most respects. Given how much I hated the New 52 in both theory and practice (with very few exceptions), this doesn't bother me at all.
I think the main reason Geoff Johns wanted Barry Allen back so much was because while writing Wally West as the Flash he found himself constantly writing about Wally trying to live up to Barry's example. He wanted to just write about a guy with super-speed who didn't have the "legacy" millstone around his neck.
Granted, I may be misremembering this.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
