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Shane Matlock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 August 2012 Location: United States Posts: 1760
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Posted: 30 August 2017 at 6:43pm | IP Logged | 1
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I never understood what was so confusing about the alternate Earths. People didn't seem to be confused by it on Fringe or Star Trek, so what made them think that comic readers couldn't grasp the concept? I absolutely loved the JLA and JSA team-ups and even at 9 or 10 years old had no trouble understand the concept of Earth 1 and Earth 2 (or Earth Prime or all the rest). Merging them all into a single Earth didn't make it less confusing, but more so.
Even DC later admitted their mistake by bringing them all back albeit in a different form that wasn't as good as they were before they tinkered with them.
All of that said, I rather enjoyed the George Perez artwork and the story at the time, but I hated that they erased all those great alternate Earths and so much history. I never really cared whether all the continuity made sense or not. I just wanted to be entertained.
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Christopher Frost Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 October 2016 Location: Canada Posts: 484
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Posted: 30 August 2017 at 8:46pm | IP Logged | 2
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"I never understood what was so confusing about the alternate Earths. People didn't seem to be confused by it on Fringe or Star Trek, so what made them think that comic readers couldn't grasp the concept? "
Just because you understood it easily doesn't mean that everyone else did too. I know from firsthand experience that some people "got it" and some people struggled with it.
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Eric Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013 Location: United States Posts: 2366
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Posted: 30 August 2017 at 10:11pm | IP Logged | 3
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And there was SLIDERS, a number of short stories, novels, movies, etc., and I enjoyed the PARATIME series by H. Beam Piper.
Anybody else find it crazy that right after DC destroys their Multiverse, they do dozens of ELSEWORLDS specials?
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Brian O'Neill Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 November 2013 Location: United States Posts: 1964
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Posted: 31 August 2017 at 12:39am | IP Logged | 4
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There was at least a decade of 'parallel earth denial' until ZERO HOUR...and Elseworlds followed that series, not CRISIS.
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Eric Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013 Location: United States Posts: 2366
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Posted: 31 August 2017 at 3:16am | IP Logged | 5
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ZERO HOUR came out in 1994 and the first ELSEWORLDS ("Gotham by Gaslight") is dated 1989.
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James Johnson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 March 2009 Location: United States Posts: 2159
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Posted: 31 August 2017 at 4:18am | IP Logged | 6
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For what it's worth, before the COIE, every Earth 2 story had some type of explanation of where these stories take place and/or who the duplicate characters were.
If it was a solo story of the Earth 2 hero, there was usually a small blurb on the splash page.
For a crossover event, like JLA/JSA, it was explained in a few panals or 1 page so that the reader understood why there was a duplicate Flash, Green Lantern, etc.....
For me, those Earth 2 characters were more interesting than DC's mainstream heroes of Earth 1.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133324
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Posted: 31 August 2017 at 6:07am | IP Logged | 7
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The notion that the DC multiverse had become "too confusing" was born mostly out of snobbery. Hardcore fans, some of whom had become pros, carried the whole history of Earth 2 and its "neighbors" in their heads, and any thought of a story dealing with any part of it unleashed a torrent of confusing ideas.Or, in a nutshell, the multiverse became confusing because the people who said it was confusing made it so. As James notes, above, appearances by multiverse characters were handled quickly and easily, but, alas, we were starting to drift into that prolonged period where those hardcore (read "anal") fans complained about "being told what we already know." As the marketplace shrank, there was less and less concern for new readers -- and, as a result, fewer and fewer new readers.
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 31 August 2017 at 6:23am | IP Logged | 8
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Or, in a nutshell, the multiverse became confusing because the people who said it was confusing made it so.
***
Sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I just wish fans could accept things as they are. It's only complicated because people make it complicated.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133324
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Posted: 31 August 2017 at 6:28am | IP Logged | 9
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I just wish fans could accept things as they are.•• That's very much a "be careful what you wish for" scenario. The engineers behind CRISIS were accepting things as they were -- as they were in their own heads. Which, in their arrogance, they deemed too confusing for "new readers". feh
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Jack Bohn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 July 2013 Location: United States Posts: 747
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Posted: 31 August 2017 at 7:24am | IP Logged | 10
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I'm not well versed in DC, but I did read those Crisis on Multiple Earths collections they were putting out, and I'm reminded of JLA #220, where they had to explain Black Canary, which maybe could be blamed on the readers, but which showed the books had fallen into the hands of writers who thought the best explanation was a daughter who she was forced to forget and who grew up in limbo (not explicitly mindless, I think) until her personality was transplanted into it. Not that JLA #220 or Crisis on Infinite Earths ruined comics, but that comics were ruined and JLA was evidence of it, and CoIE evidence that no one could ignore.
Now some disturbing numbers: Using CRISIS as the marker, we've reached the point when the ruined comic industry has been running longer than that new Flash (1956-1986), and longer than the first flush of the Golden Age, whenever it was everyone but the Trinity got cancelled. It may be that superhero comics is just not a long-term business.
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 31 August 2017 at 7:37am | IP Logged | 11
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It may be that superhero comics is just not a long-term business.
***
I am a glass half-full sort of guy. Anything is salvageable. Most things have the potential to be successful. Surely?
Donald Duck isn't a superhero, but he seems to have staying power. As do others.
I don't believe superhero comics are not a long-term business. They could and should be.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133324
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Posted: 31 August 2017 at 7:45am | IP Logged | 12
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I'm not well versed in DC, but I did read those Crisis on Multiple Earths collections they were putting out, and I'm reminded of JLA #220, where they had to explain Black Canary, which maybe could be blamed on the readers, but which showed the books had fallen into the hands of writers who thought the best explanation was a daughter who she was forced to forget and who grew up in limbo (not explicitly mindless, I think) until her personality was transplanted into it. Not that JLA #220 or Crisis on Infinite Earths ruined comics, but that comics were ruined and JLA was evidence of it, and CoIE evidence that no one could ignore.•• Earth 1 and Earth 2 -- which really should have been Earth 2 and Earth 1 -- as originally presented were basically the same, except that their timelines were different. The beginning of the Superhero Age had been earlier on Earth 2, but basically all the same characters had appeared, albeit in different forms. Think of it as the "Mirror, Mirror" episode of STAR TREK, except that in this case there was no good/evil division. Based on this, explaining the Earth 1 version of ANY character should have been easy: they had the same history as their Earth 2 counterparts, just occurring later.* A big problem for DC in setting up CRISIS, of course, was that some Golden Age characters had unbroken runs since their first appearances in the Thirties and Forties. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and even Green Arrow and Aquaman, had not "gone away" like the Golden Age versions of the Flash, Green Lantern, the Atom, Hawkman, etc. So those anal fanboys started asking where the "break" occurred. Which adventures belonged to the Golden Age Superman, and which to the Silver Age. My response, all along, was to assume (and later to say) they'd both had the same adventures, just at different times. Ditto for the rest. But asking DC to take the easy way is pretty much the definition of wasting one's time. ________________________ * And "later" is one of those things readers were simply going to have to accept as a sliding scale. When "The Flash of Two Worlds" happened, "later" mean nineteen or twenty years. By the time CRISIS happened, it was more like fifty years. But those were the same length of time!
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