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Eric Jansen
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| Posted: 25 August 2017 at 9:50am | IP Logged | 1
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I always liked Earth 2 and the annual JLA/JSA team-ups and related features, but I remember enjoying CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS at the time it came out and I was at least open to seeing what would come out of it.
It started off promising with JB doing a great job invigorating Superman and George Perez tackling Wonder Woman (a beloved character whose book was always lackluster for some reason), but the DC Universe soon devolved into a big mess and it seemed that for the next 20 (30?) years all the major storylines revolved around fixing (or trying to fix) DC's rewritten history and filling all the holes CRISIS caused. Even the well-done comics in the post-CRISIS period still aggravated me. (Did we really need the Alan Scott Green Lantern flying around Gotham when Bruce Wayne was a child? Did that help anything?) I find that I enjoy the pre-CRISIS back issues I pick up a lot more than any post-CRISIS--or post-ZERO HOUR or post-INFINITE CRISIS or post-FLASHPOINT or post-NEW 52--stuff!
But it wasn't just DC that CRISIS ruined for me. Smaller companies like Image and others felt the need (and freedom) to do reality-changing "events" and reboot their entire lines--companies with a lot less baggage, but they did it nonetheless. And just recently Marvel did their own version of CRISIS and merged their Ultimate and regular worlds--though they always said they never would. (Of course, they also said they would never cancel FANTASTIC FOUR.) And now even Archie Comics has rebooted too.
In each case, continuity gets thrown out the window. Sure, let's not be a slave to nitpicky continuity minutia, but let's not needlessly stomp all over it either.
I wonder if the CRISIS effect extends even into the movies. Nobody seems to mind that there have been three distinct SUPERMAN continuities in the movies since 1978--and at least five different Supermans or Superboys on TV in the same time. And three distinct Spider-Mans in only ten years! And even James Bond, who had no problem rolling along as the same basic person decade after decade, got his own reboot, leading to continuity confusion. (Is Judi Dench the first "M" or the last? Why is the new Bond nostalgic about an old Aston Martin from storage?)
Movie fans are used to remakes, so perhaps there's no backlash there. but comic fans enjoy their continuity. I don't mind "adjustments" (Reed and Ben no longer fought in World War II--that's fine, and Superman never met John F. Kennedy), but when we're expected to remember that Black Canary not Wonder Woman helped found the JLA--or now it's Cyborg instead of J'onn J'onzz!--the "continuity" gets more complex and impenetrable. Reboots turn out to be less welcoming, not more (as expected).
So, my answer to my own subject heading question is: Yes, CRISIS ruined things. Is there any way to cure that "We can reboot anything we want--consequences be damned!" mindset that is so pervasive now?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 25 August 2017 at 10:20am | IP Logged | 2
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CRISIS began as a multi-part history of the DCU, which Dick Giordano asked me to write and draw. Frank Miller, who was at that same after-con dinner, told me I would have to be insane to take on such a project. I agreed, and also admitted that my apparent encyclopedic knowledge of DC history actually sprang from having the phone numbers of Roger Stern and Peter Sanderson. Conversation drifted onto other topics, and for a while the whole project seemed to have faded away. Then I heard about CRISIS. As Dick had pitched the project to me, it would end by "blowing everything up and starting over." Now, it seemed that ending was to be the whole project. The history aspect had been relegated to a single volume once it was all over. So, CRISIS happened, and as an outsider looking in, I could see all kinds of problem, problems that were represented in microcosm by the Superman "reboot" I was asked to do. Superman, as a survivor of CRISIS, had already been "rebooted". If I was now being asked to do something else, it should have been worked out before CRISIS, so Superman could have been left in his "new" condition at the end of that series. Same for Batman, for Wonder Woman, for everybody. But that didn't happen which is why I crashed headlong into the Legion of Superheroes right out of the gate, despite being told not to worry about the Legion. And then, of course, MAN OF STEEL became the model. It seemed every character had to be "rebooted" and every writer wanted to start from scratch. But that being said, it wasn't CRISIS that caused the trouble. It was the fanboy/RPG mentality that had overtaken the industry. The mentality that made CRISIS "necessary".
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Mario Ribeiro
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2016
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: 25 August 2017 at 10:33am | IP Logged | 3
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I was a post-crisis kid, so that's still my DC. It did energize the line.
The problem with CRISIS and all the other reboots is that it was not a real reboot. It could have worked beautifully had they had the nerve to start everything from scratch. But no, to keep Nightwing or the new Flash they had to admit that these characters had some prior history, but what history was that? Who could tell what still mattered and what didn't?
Anyway, we did get a lot of great titles, and that never ruined anything.
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Adam Schulman
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Joined: 22 July 2017
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| Posted: 25 August 2017 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | 4
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JB's right. CRISIS -- or more specifically the result of CRISIS -- would've been fine if DC had planned ahead with its "reboots" and they'd been done in a way that didn't cause "ripple effects" in the shared universe, like JB encountered with Superman and the Legion. Or with Wonder Woman and her "reboot" affected the JSA, JLA, Donna Troy, and Fury of Infinity Inc.
It's also become clear to me, decades later, that killing Barry Allen was pointless. Everyone seems to love him now that he's back!
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Robert Shepherd
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| Posted: 25 August 2017 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | 5
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I think CRISIS was such a fun read. I really enjoyed the whole idea and it seemed logical at the time. I hadn't seen so many heroes all together....it was great.
But I can certainly see how CRISIS was the first domino that, by itself, didn't harm the industry, but it set off a chain reaction that has grown exponentially and is still fueling today's chaotic directives. It's like a mutating virus and so far nothing can stop it.
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Eric Sofer
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Joined: 31 January 2014
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| Posted: 25 August 2017 at 3:43pm | IP Logged | 6
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It boggles me how such a project could be conceived without at least a year of pre-planning of the books after the event. And especially that A) CoIE #12 did NOT end with the "big bang" to restart DC's books, or affairs as they would continue after the Crisis. Instead, there had to be a big knockdown, drag-out hero vs villain fight, only to discover that the Crisis WASN'T over.
Had this been done honestly, every single book, strip, and reference would have started from a new origin. But as I've commented elsewhere, some books were simply selling too well to screw around with them (the Batman titles, New Titans, Green Lantern, likely a few more that I can't remember 32 years later.) And ANY history invalidated the entire Crisis concept. How could Batman have any past when Superman and Wonder Woman were starting from scratch? How could there be a Robin, and then how could Robin NOT be added? and then, how could the Titans exist? And then- okay, my point is, it was poorly thought out, and while beautiful books... not very good in context.
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Adam Schulman
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| Posted: 25 August 2017 at 3:54pm | IP Logged | 7
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A complete-and-total-reboot certainly wasn't necessary from a sales standpoint. I liked the multiverse but writers for DC couldn't keep track of who belonged on which Earth. Some characters had backstories that really needed revising (Black Canary especially -- "I'm really my own daughter!" -- that justified CRISIS all on its own). All that was needed was, like Eric said, "a year of pre-planning."
It really could've been done in a way that didn't affect most DC titles that existed at that time. Even ALL-STAR SQUADRON wouldn't have been affected that much -- Roy Thomas would've had to stop using a very few characters and that would've been it. (Had I been in charge I would've let him continue using Wonder Woman. She's immortal, she could've been in the JSA, left Man's World, come back later, rescue Donna Troy and bring her to Paradise Island, become a founding JLA member...very easy, really.)
INFINITY, INC. would've been affected but that title never sold well anyway.
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Adam Schulman
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| Posted: 25 August 2017 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | 8
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By the way, the series that really ruined the industry was the one that instigated the whole BIG EVENT SERIES idea:
SECRET WARS.
Which begat SECRET WARS II which begat every undreadable event series that's happened since.
With the exception of BLACKEST NIGHT and maybe a couple of others, none of these have even been fun to read.
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Doug Centers
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| Posted: 25 August 2017 at 4:42pm | IP Logged | 9
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I had heard so much about Crisis ,from you guys, that I had to read it . Although against some of those in the know not to do it,"keep your eyes innocent, keep your DC in the Bronze Age" I was told.
Well I got the TPB a year or so ago and I thought it was a fun read with great Perez art. I wish it wasn't canon but honestly it isn't to me. My head reverts back to my collecting days anyway.
Although it seems I was confused about Power Girl and how she fit in.
And can someone explain Hawkman to me? It was unclear exactly how his history works.
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Robbie Parry
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| Posted: 25 August 2017 at 5:13pm | IP Logged | 10
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I'm grateful for MAN OF STEEL.
But I think CRISIS was a domino. I didn't read them (or at least much of them), but when I heard of FINAL CRISIS, INFINITE CRISIS, THIS-TIME-IT'LL-BE-THE-LAST CRISIS, well I got bored. How can an arc have so much mileage decades later?
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James Johnson
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| Posted: 25 August 2017 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | 11
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To this day, I'm still trying to figure out WHY Hawkman origin was touched?
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Eric Jansen
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| Posted: 25 August 2017 at 8:11pm | IP Logged | 12
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My favorite books at the time were all ruined by CRISIS:
LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES never recovered from the removal of Superboy and that one revision threw the doors open for numerous reboots. And the big seller is cancelled now.
NEW TEEN TITANS was thrown for a serious loop after the whole "NOW who is Donna Troy?" thing. And the big seller was cancelled a few times.
INFINITY INC. and ALL-STAR SQUADRON had their premises totally ruined by CRISIS. Roy Thomas's little corner of the world (including SECRET ORIGINS) should have been shifted into its own little protective bubble--a separate imprint perhaps?
The irony is that CRISIS didn't really HELP anything! As JB has said, SUPERMAN could have had a "soft reboot" or fresh start and it would have been fine. BATMAN was the least altered by CRISIS, and I don't think it's any coincidence that he survived it the best (though I was worried every time he teamed up with the Huntress that there would be some sort of romance between the two!). WONDER WOMAN is the only major player that was really helped by CRISIS--but that hardly makes up for the other damage done.
Rising star POWER GIRL was thoroughly messed up by CRISIS and NOBODY understood Hawkman's history for the next 20 years! Certainly something like CRISIS should have made these potential star properties MORE sellable, not less.
But my initial point still stands--the thinking behind CRISIS gave everybody mental leeway to reboot whatever they wanted whenever they wanted! Were there countless reboots BEFORE CRISIS? No. But now 5-year-olds know the term and people are surprised when a movie (or TV or comic) series ISN'T rebooted within ten years.
And the resulting confusing continuity in comics has helped older fans to jump ship and has prevented newer readers from jumping on.
Edited by Eric Jansen on 25 August 2017 at 8:13pm
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