| Author |
|
Shane Matlock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 August 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1760
|
| Posted: 08 March 2017 at 12:13am | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
I complain about Marvel because I care about the characters I grew up with and would like for them to publish comics I'd actually want to read. (And that everyone else would like to read based on their current sales for that matter.)
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
|
| Posted: 08 March 2017 at 4:29am | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
As a fan of superhero comics I look for two things in new stories:
- The characters I know and love, portrayed in ways that ring true to who they really are.
- Entertaining and novel (if not necessarily original) ideas and plot lines.
This is of course no small feat for writers, especially for heroes who have been around for decades. Which is why we celebrate the writers and stories which succeed that way. But for the past years (decades, really) writers have been sacrificing characterization for story. And what's worse, the stories are usually lame, fanfic-calibre ideas. It's just a miserable mode that the genre has been stuck in. DC has improved a bit recently, but Marvel seems dead set on ploughing into the abyss.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 08 March 2017 at 4:31am
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
|
| Posted: 08 March 2017 at 5:49am | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
Christpher Frost: "My question to the forum is if you don't read the books anymore as it is, why do you care so much what they do with them?"
Fair question. You then cite caring about books and movies without having experienced them.
But the point is that no one has seen a movie with Dorothy Gale or a book with Robinson Crusoe for many many years. Characters that were prominent when I was collecting comics are still being published. Just because I don't read comics now doesn't mean that I have no interest in them, or that I don't want to see stupid story concepts in the medium that I have loved.*
That doesn't mean that I want things to go back to the way they were, but on the same token, I don't want things to get worse. This concept is pretty roundly disliked by the board in whole - even those of us whose only contact with the characters are movies and/or TV shows.
*Mr. Byrne might well say it's time for us to move on... but (in my case at least), I'd like to think that I'm not exactly ennui gorged fanboy. Still, I might be...
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14857
|
| Posted: 08 March 2017 at 10:25am | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
Do people here talk to younger readers, newer readers, and female
readers? I'm not interested in a lot of the current output of Marvel and
DC, but they seem to be. Even the folks who became interested
through the Marvel movies, where the characters are closer to what I
was reading when I was a kid than what they are now. And for newer
readers who ARE interested in the older versions of the characters,
there's a robust library of trades available at the bookstore. Also, the
people I've talked to are largely interested in trades or digital.
Periodicals continue to wither.
People have been pushing this narrative of the Big Two catering to the
aging fanboy, and while that may have been true 10-15 years ago, I
don't think it's as true now. Most of the pushback to Marvel's current
cast of less white, less male legacy heroes is from the aging fanboys.
So whatever Marvel and DC are pushing out today is not for me, and
that's OK.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
|
| Posted: 08 March 2017 at 10:51am | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
I gave up Marvel completely last May, not as a form of protest, but because I don't care for what they produce. I gave up comics for much of the 90's and did fine with my old comics. I'm not mad at Marvel but I still buy comics (mostly DC) and I still have discussions with people at my LCS and I still scoff at things that I don't like. I know why I don't buy Marvel comics at this point in time and I'm fine with it. If they do something that interests me in the future, I'll probably check it out.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Conrad Teves
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 2230
|
| Posted: 08 March 2017 at 11:05am | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
Michael, this is purely anecdotal and just from my experience, so take that for what it's worth, but at the cons I go to, people are very interested in the characters, but less so in the stories. I say that because they are far more willing to pony up $20 for an art print of whoever, than $5 for a comic. Last MSP ComiCon I was tabling next to a vendor selling back issues. I don't recall a lot of younger fans perusing his boxes despite spectacularly good prices-- though I bought a pile from him myself. Most of his customers seemed to be very much adults. On the other hand, the guy across the aisle selling toys and other collectibles had tons of kids (and parents).I've noticed while the Name pros sit at an unadorned table with a stack of old pencil pages from books they'd done and some drawing supplies, many others in my boat keep trying to sell books while figuring out how to get them to take up less table space* so people can look at the art.
Anyone else have similar experiences? I suspect in an age where kids watch Frozen a zillion times, these characters are sort of Comfort Food. New characters fall into the "Boy, I dunno..." then ordering a hamburger at a Chinese restaurant category.
*I see more and more folks using tabletop spinner racks to hold their books. Will do the same.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Doug Centers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 5591
|
| Posted: 08 March 2017 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
"Do people here talk to younger readers, newer readers, and female
readers? "
...
My son is 19 and loves the Marvel movies. He and his friends will see multiple showings of the new releases.
In print form though no "traditional" super heroes, his pull list at the LCS is all various Star Wars comics.
He was into Deadpool a couple of years ago but now says the stories aren't any good.
His impulse buys are mostly from Oni Press .
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
|
| Posted: 08 March 2017 at 1:47pm | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
I mentioned Rhodey as Iron Man setting a precedent for this kind of storyline, but completely skipped over the Silver Age, when we saw Flash, Green Lantern, and other characters completely changed from their original incarnations.
It's interesting that DC decided to shelve Jay Garrick after 10 years, then did the same with Barry Allen after 30 years, then did the same with Wally West after 20 years, and now we're back to Barry again...with Wally and Jay still around. We'll find out soon enough if the shakeups at Marvel are just going to be a little blip in their characters' histories or if it's the start of their Silver Age, relatively speaking.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Jason Larouse
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 May 2011
Posts: 515
|
| Posted: 08 March 2017 at 2:21pm | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
Isn't Doom's armor better than Iron Man's (at least in his mind)?
Wouldn't Doom see becoming Iron Man as lowering himself?
How do they justify these two things?
Edited by Jason Larouse on 08 March 2017 at 2:22pm
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14857
|
| Posted: 08 March 2017 at 2:43pm | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
How do they justify these two things?
-----
Because they need different characters to fill the slots of [Adjective]
[Character Name]. As much as I enjoyed Superior Spider-Man, it
opened that particular door.
I haven't looked at Infamous Iron Man, but my impression was that
Doom was using his own armor and just using the Iron Man persona.
Whether his attempt at being a hero is genuine or fake, I think the
Doom name and armor carries a bit of baggage.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Joseph Greathouse
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 August 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 591
|
| Posted: 09 March 2017 at 8:11am | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
It is his own armor.
As to the heroic personality, in his mind it is his. But it is due to a manipulation of Reed's (or Franklin's if you want to keep Reed heroic mindset in tact) post Secret Wars. Which means, when Reed comes back, Doom will be pissed and then some and there will be some splainin' to do! I think it will be a fun ride.
Edited by Joseph Greathouse on 09 March 2017 at 8:12am
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3507
|
| Posted: 09 March 2017 at 9:12am | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
I don't have a problem with replacement stories per se. They're de rigueur in superhero comics. And in the case of current Marvel, there have even been some books I have enjoyed out of it (I've mostly enjoyed Jane Foster Thor's book, and the Old Man Logan title). My problem is that they've replaced nearly all of their characters at the same time, and the few they haven't are nearly unrecognizable.
Falcon Cap Lady Thor Ironheart/Infamous Iron Man Awesome Hulk Female Hawkeye Female Wolverine Teen X-Men
Plus, no Fantastic Four book, Cap as a super-villain, and Peter Parker as a CEO of an international corporation.
I'd be open to a couple of these stories at a time, but what they've done is make the whole Marvel Universe completely unrecognizable not only to long time fans, but to potential new fans through the films and television shows. The Avengers characters are literally the most popular film characters in the world right now, and not one of them is available in recognizable form in a currently published comic.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Topic Closed)
