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Topic: What JB FF story would make a great movie? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 02 February 2017 at 1:53am | IP Logged | 1  

If Marvel Studios gets the rights to the FF back, the first thing I'd want to see is just a big FF vs. the Hulk!  That would be the best way to immerse the FF into the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Then "Terror in a Tiny Town" would make a great follow-up!

(That would also give Doom a necessary one-movie rest.)
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 02 February 2017 at 3:05pm | IP Logged | 2  

"Terror in a Tiny Town" is an excellent story and one of my favorite FF stories, but it falls down in issues of scale. What we're seeing can't quite be what's happening. The forks wouldn't be shiny and smooth. Johnny's car wouldn't quite work the way an actual scale vehicle does. Reed's blood wouldn't flow. It all has to be some sort of extra-dimensional pocket area of space being projected onto the tabletop which the FF have been transported rather than a case of them being miniaturized and put into play in a tiny trainset environment as we seem to be shown. 

And you could explain it that way in a film version, too, if you wanted to, but the audience would still see the tiny tabletop community and scoff at the lack of surface tension difficulties in the presentation of water or the manner in which our heroes and their neighbors have to walk being so very close to the "ground" and having so little mass. "Well, Doom took care of all that for Doom is DOOM!" The water isn't water, it's... some super-low-viscosity substance that Doom made to act like water... and, um, the spark plugs in Johnny's car are, um, powered by microversal energy fluctuations... And, um... Yeah, whatever. 

It's a great little story, but I'm not sure as a producer I would want to spend $150 million hoping the audience will write my super-hero epic the free pass broad comedies like "Honey, I Shrunk the Kids" and "The Incredible Shrinking Lily Tomlin"* require... Maybe they'd buy it. Maybe they wouldn't. The armchair scientists on the internet would have a field day roasting my film over a fire. Is that the best possible use of my money?

If the Gods of Marvel Studios demand guest-stars, I'd definitely go with a variation on the "Save Galactus" saga. If they just want the FF, I'd include most of the action from "Back to the Basics" and allow the JB run to inform whatever the rest of the movie became, possibly the failed attempt at a "normal" life as the Benjamins to provide Franklin some security**, possibly ending with his evolution into young adulthood and back again ala' "Childhood's End." 

* Neither of which spend much time at the scale of Liddleville. "Fantastic Voyage" does or very nearly does, but there, you have other problems as well. 
** I'd avoid the supernatural direction that storyline took since magic makes for a novel FF story in the comics and a simply wrong one onscreen.

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Mario Ribeiro
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Posted: 02 February 2017 at 5:40pm | IP Logged | 3  

But Charles, do we really need a new origin, a blank slate, a reboot, to get the tone right? New cast, certainly, but give me the Four being Fantastic already. Hero Journey should not be mandatory. I'd say start with the team in the Baxter Building, and they leave home to investigate or explore something. Civilians can accept superpowers onscreen now, just like we did in comics, and frankly they want to see them in action as much as we do.

Now, I've just reread "Legacy" (the Skrull Milk story) and ouch! It would be a terrible movie, I couldn't have been more wrong. Oh, it's a brilliant story, but let's face it, it spends almost 20 (wonderful) pages dealing with Sharon in the town, before the FF appears. The skrull cows could be dealt with in five minutes, but this can't. My mistake.

Rereading the FF, though, (spoiler: major thread drift ahead), I wondered: can there be a decent FF movie? I love the characters, love the villains, love the concept, but can we ever get a Thing as perfect as the one we see on the page, who will look as real as everybody else? Is there any way he wouldn't look silly? What about Sue? We accept her invisibility (and the force fields) because in almost every page in comics we see stuff the characters can't see (speech/ thought balloons, speed lines, etc.) It's part of the convention. But seeing her floating around or not seeing her at all just ain't the same.

To return to the original question, though, now I'd say "Wendy's Friends".
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John Byrne
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Posted: 02 February 2017 at 6:16pm | IP Logged | 4  

"Terror in a Tiny Town" is an excellent story and one of my favorite FF stories, but it falls down in issues of scale. What we're seeing can't quite be what's happening. The forks wouldn't be shiny and smooth. Johnny's car wouldn't quite work the way an actual scale vehicle does. Reed's blood wouldn't flow.

••

Definitely time for you to stop reading these silly comic books!

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Jim Petersman
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Posted: 02 February 2017 at 8:31pm | IP Logged | 5  

I'd start the movie with a montage of action scenes of the FF vs the usual villains (Mole Man, Red Ghost, Molecule Man, special emphasis on the Skrulls, Doom, and the Puppet Master). Turns out that would be footage being shown as Sue is about to be interviewed (more or less the Childhood's end interview). Sets up the players, powers, origin, and relationships. The Hulk, Dr. Strange, or others could be in the clips as fun little Easter eggs as well.

After the interview, Sue returns to an all too quiet Baxter Building. The Silver Surfer takes the place of Franklin here. Sue, during the interview, could have spoken about her husband being a scientist first and foremost. She could mention that even now he was working on determining the origin of...I don't know, a ray or communication from space... whatever sets up a reason for the Silver Surfer to show up. Reed's investigation somehow caught the eye of Galactus and SS, racked with guilt, defeats the team in hopes that whatever drew Galactus' attention can be shut down and his attention diverted before billions die.

Among the defeated lies Alicia (this could ultimately be her Annihilus moment from books) and Johnny Storm's girlfriend, Frankie Raye. This will lead into a big Galactus battle, his defeat, and Reed saving him. Frankie becomes Nova, they go off into space to kill some "bug eyed aliens". Silver Surfer leaves to deal with his imprisonment and the family tries to comfort Johnny in his grief. Suddenly a high pitched noise knocks them all out.

Credits scene one: Frankie and Galactus attack and destroy the Skrull homeworld. Some Skrulls escape with help of the Super-Skull and vow revenge on whomever is responsible. Set up movie #3.

After credits scene: Reed wakes up in his bed feeling confused and afraid. He enters the kitchen to see his family, his completely normal family, making breakfast in their lovely little home in...Liddleville.

Fade to black.
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 02 February 2017 at 10:13pm | IP Logged | 6  

JB wrote: "Definitely time for you to stop reading these silly comic books!"

Hey, I knew it was silly back in the day. Loved it then and love it now. I'll decide when I leave comics, thanks.

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Shane Matlock
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Posted: 03 February 2017 at 1:55am | IP Logged | 7  

Best thing about this thread is it has me reading JB's FF run again to see which story would work best as a movie. 
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Don Zomberg
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Posted: 03 February 2017 at 6:53am | IP Logged | 8  

Brian, I think you and JB are using the word "silly" in very different ways.
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 03 February 2017 at 8:23am | IP Logged | 9  

Brian, did you ever like Ant-Man? I'm assuming not. Same for Giant-Man
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 03 February 2017 at 8:26am | IP Logged | 10  

Dave, did you mean JB's use of it being a sarcastic reference to the manner in which the constantly-referenced "ennui-engorged fanboys" view the medium they falsely profess to love and mine where I actually mean "silly?" I think I picked up on that, Don.

The point of my original post which JB's selected out-of-context quote distorts was that the story, however incisive and enjoyable, does not work on a certain basic level that film producers might not find easily overlooked. That doesn't mean that it's not a great story. It is. Also on the list of stories modern producers likely wouldn't try to sell to us today: The 1939 Wizard of Oz. The premise is essentially simplistic; too much so perhaps for today's audiences to cough up money to go see. 

I'm not sneering at that. I'm not mocking it. I am recognizing it, however. I also recognized it back when I first bought the comic. The story is also flawed by the manner in which Doom brings the FF to him. He simply hypnotizes them all into flying halfway around the world and sleepwalking into his clutches. Why does this guy lose again? It's comics. I get it. I don't think as a movie producer, however, I want to give my bad guy a "walk into my trap" button to press whenever he feels like it. 

Willing Suspension of Disbelief does not insist upon a Completely Unconscious Suspension of Disbelief. I know as a reader the distance of the leap of faith I'm often asked to make to make a story work, and I'm willing to making that jump without making fun of the material I'm enjoying. This weird, completely false idea that as kids we never, never did that is wrong. The kids on my playground at school talked a lot about elements of the stories we weren't shown and whether or not they worked. Characters like Bizarro and Professor Zoom (both of whom I loved) were said to be stupid with stupid-sounding names. Superman was ridiculous, it was argued, whereas Batman was cool because he was REAL. How does the Flash run all the way around the world? I get that he's really fast and it doesn't take long for him, but does he still have to take every- single- step- that it would take to make that trip? Or is momentum throwing him forward so that he's really only touching the surface of the Earth every twelve feet or so? Twenty? Do his strides get longer the farther and faster he goes? The kid who grew up to be a drag queen wanted to know if when the Hulk changed all of him changed. Y'know, ALL of him... Kids don't simply throw open their comics as a cascade of colored lights emerge from the pages and holler "Golly Gumbucks!" in simplistic, all-accepting joy and its unrealistic to expect that from any reader. You pay your ticket fee, you get to ask questions. So sorry if that's somehow too much ennui for some to bear. And no, I am not falsely remembering those conversations from my school days. That one about the Flash took place as we were sitting on the grate on the side of the school and the one about the Hulk was really, really awkward.

"How the hell is Reed's arm bleeding?" and "How do those spark plugs work?" are valid questions an intelligent storyteller, producer, or screenwriter might expect the audience to ask rather than chastising them for their temerity and characterizing them all as yawning, bored simpletons out to destroy the joy of things for themselves and everyone else around them. Wacky thought, I know... We can hand-wave those concerns away with talk of synthi-clones and localized gravity fields if we choose to, but then those elements are free to be called into question as well. How much time do we want to spend explaining these things? None? Fine. You can do that if you want. "Just enough?" Also fine. 

But not every storyteller is going to feel the premise is worth the potential hassle and lack of "sell" to the consumer. The tabletop Liddleville is charming as hell. I'm just not sure that charm is going to outweigh the questions it presents for my film audience. I'd do it a lot more readily if our hypothetical FF film were a full-on CGI animated cartoon aimed squarely at the kids market. Different expectations there. Much the same expectations of a more-accepting audience that the comic itself enjoyed. When those questions came up, from kids or adults, however, I wouldn't blame the audience. I knew those gaps were in the design when I built it. 

And James? Yeah, they didn't rock my world. I did like the Atom and Shrinking Violet however. And Kandor. Freakin' loved Kandor. Thanks for asking.



Edited by Brian Hague on 03 February 2017 at 8:27am
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 03 February 2017 at 8:45am | IP Logged | 11  

I think you're hugely overestimating a general audience's knowledge of fluid dynamics, Brian.
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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 03 February 2017 at 9:05am | IP Logged | 12  

But Charles, do we really need a new origin, a blank slate, a reboot, to get the tone right? New cast, certainly, but give me the Four being Fantastic already. Hero Journey should not be mandatory. I'd say start with the team in the Baxter Building, and they leave home to investigate or explore something. Civilians can accept superpowers onscreen now, just like we did in comics, and frankly they want to see them in action as much as we do.

******

I think the “hero’s journey” is especially important considering how weak the Fantastic Four has been portrayed in Fox’s previous attempts.

The general audience needs a story that let’s them know this is truly a worthy superhero franchise. "Terror in a Tiny Town"  would send that point loud and clear I believe. What I really like about the story is that it really conveys the dynamics of the characters' relationships to each other (Especially Ben and Reed, then Ben and Alicia) and how the events that gave them their powers effected them all.

Regarding Dr. Doom... and a follow-up movie based on Doom's attempt to reclaim Latveria from another ruler (#246-247) would add much needed depth to the villain that audiences really need to see on the big screen. Fox really messed up Doom and this storyline would fix that.

Then, in a third movie, Galactus should be introduced. He deserves a proper build-up in Marvel's cinematic universe on the level of Thanos and the events leading to "The Trial of Reed Richards" could cross over into a few different movies.

-C!


Edited by Charles Valderrama on 03 February 2017 at 9:06am
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