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Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
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| Posted: 21 November 2016 at 4:20pm | IP Logged | 1
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Yep, you could count on the audience having turned over back then. I
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6413
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| Posted: 21 November 2016 at 4:31pm | IP Logged | 2
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Andrew: Really? Welcoming women and minority readers by the tens of
thousands is bad business? The old readers are still around, but they've
got some company now. If people my age are spending a little less
money on monthly Marvel and DC Comics but their books are reaching a
new audience, that's a good thing.
**
The "welcoming" of new readers is a pretty intimate affair when circulation
is what it is. And it can hardly be called "good business" when there is only
one Marvel comic in the top 25 selling titles -- Amazing Spider-Man
which sold a whopping 71,000 copies. Thor and Ms. Marvel aren't even
selling that much combined.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 21 November 2016 at 4:47pm | IP Logged | 3
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Mike Norris: Marvel Studio's is pretty much it's own thing. Outside of mining the comics IP they don't care what the publishing arm or the TV arm does. They've become the dog and comics are the tail. They don't seem interested in making movies with Jane Thor, Falcon America or Riri Iron Man
It's win-win for the film studio, because the comic book division may hit upon a concept or character that translates well to film. If not, the comics can reboot everything tomorrow and make their books exactly like the movies if Disney makes that call.
Mark Haslett: The "welcoming" of new readers is a pretty intimate affair when circulation is what it is. And it can hardly be called "good business" when there is only one Marvel comic in the top 25 selling titles -- Amazing Spider-Man which sold a whopping 71,000 copies. Thor and Ms. Marvel aren't even selling that much combined.
That's not counting digital sales, which Marvel insists are very strong, with Ms. Marvel as one of their top sellers to that market. There aren't any periodicals in any format that are setting the world ablaze with their circulation figures right now. Publishers know what it takes to stay profitable in this comics era, and they know that they aren't going to routinely sell a half-million copies of Spider-Man every month anymore.
But we've also got a Black Panther book that's moving a lot of $3.99-priced units every month, is garnering critical mainstream acclaim, and is selling like gangbusters in the digital and trade paperback formats. It's hard to compare that directly to a Fantastic Four comic book that cost 75 cents and was available at every newsstand nationwide when we've only got a fraction of those newsstands still in business and only a small sliver of those are even willing to stock comic books anymore.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14852
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| Posted: 21 November 2016 at 4:56pm | IP Logged | 4
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The "welcoming" of new readers is a pretty intimate affair when
circulation is what it is. And it can hardly be called "good business"
when there is only one Marvel comic in the top 25 selling titles --
Amazing Spider-Man which sold a whopping 71,000 copies. Thor and
Ms. Marvel aren't even selling that much combined.
-----
Purely anecdotal, but the new female readers I know don't bother with
periodicals. It's all trades and digital for them.
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Michael Casselman
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Joined: 14 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1246
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| Posted: 21 November 2016 at 4:56pm | IP Logged | 5
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The comic industry is bleeding out, yet some insist it looks as attractive as ever with just the right application of blush on it's cheeks.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14852
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| Posted: 21 November 2016 at 5:04pm | IP Logged | 6
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The comic industry is bleeding out, yet some insist it looks as attractive
as ever with just the right application of blush on it's cheeks.
-----
Disagree. The comic industry is more diverse and accessible than it
was when I was a kid. What people are complaining about is that
Marvel and DC are not what they used to be. I agree with that, but that
ship sailed long ago.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 21 November 2016 at 5:18pm | IP Logged | 7
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How many "readers" were there, really, when the comics industry hit its last really big sales peak in the Death of Superman/Image/X-Men #1 era? And how many comics from that era really hold up today? And how many millions of actual readers are people like Gene Luen Yang, Raina Telgemeier, Jeff Smith, John Lewis, Andrew Aydin, and Nate Powell reaching this year?
And how many millions more potential comics readers are out there thanks to movies and video games and other tie-ins? Marvel and DC aren't losing any sleep over today's Green Lantern sales versus 1985's.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6413
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| Posted: 21 November 2016 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | 8
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And how many millions more potential comics readers are out there thanks
to movies and video games and other tie-ins?
**
Interesting question. History tells us pretty much zero. But maybe it's
different today. Still, if any movie viewers are moved to try comics, is it really
your position that meeting them with "versions" of the characters that don't
match at all is "good business" because it "welcomes" a more diverse
readership? That's what you've written here, but it's so counter-intuitive that
I think I must be misunderstanding.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
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| Posted: 21 November 2016 at 6:32pm | IP Logged | 9
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Beats me. I'm not sure Marvel Comics have ever quite matched the movies--we didn't have single teenage/college Spider-Man in the comics when the biggest Spidey movies hit, we didn't have Gwen in the comics when she was introduced as the new love interest in the movies; the X-movies seem like they could care less if Jean Grey or other popular characters are alive in the comics or not; Steve Rogers seems to rarely be regular ol' Captain America since he got killed off right after Marvel's first Civil War miniseries; and I could go on and on. Marvel seems more concerned with putting out a good comic than caring whether or not it matches the movies, and they seem to be doing fine with that strategy.
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Mario Ribeiro
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2016
Location: Brazil
Posts: 474
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| Posted: 21 November 2016 at 7:37pm | IP Logged | 10
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Yeah, sorry, but comics should not try to follow Hollywood movies who are not that faithful to begin with. Hollywood plans change all the time, and it would be impossible to keep up.
And let's face it, the problem is not that current Superman doesn't match Zack Snyder's vision, the problem is that these characters seem different than the ones we grew up. This has nothing to do with business and everything to do with nostalgia. But someone who stopped reading Marvel in 1970 would simply roll his eyes if he heard what was going on with his beloved characters in the eighties. He wouldn't recognize them either, and depending on how it was presented, it would sound ridiculous. That's part of the game, as always. Current versions should appeal to current readers. Let them enjoy their comics as much as we did ours.
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Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
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| Posted: 21 November 2016 at 7:44pm | IP Logged | 11
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Interesting point Mario. I'm current reading the Green Lantern/Green Arrow run from the early 70's and the X-Men run from the late 70's/Early 80's. There is a difference between those two in terms of writing and plotting. And a very big difference between them and the modern books I read this week.
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Brad Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 December 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1713
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| Posted: 21 November 2016 at 9:00pm | IP Logged | 12
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Wait.
WHAT?
I think the last thing I read from Marvel was House of M which I regretted then, but now I think I should have quit even earlier.
George Lucas looks like a Saint compared to how Marvel would have ruined my childhood had I bothered to continue reading Marvel product.
I'll keep my Simonson Thor, my Byrne Fantastic Four, my Miller Daredevil (the first round), my Micheline Iron Man, my Englehart Avengers and my Cockrum/Byrne/Cockrum X-Men and live happily ever after.
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