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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6413
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| Posted: 17 November 2016 at 6:09pm | IP Logged | 1
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Andrew: But issue four of a six-part story arc today isn't inherently more
confusing than it was ten, twenty, or thirty years ago. Readers who aren't
steeped in the current continuity will figure out pretty quickly if they like
the art, writing, and basic premise of a book.
**
Yes. Yes it is.
Thirty years ago, how many "six-part story arcs" were there? And not one
title had something so inherently counterintuitive as "Jane Foster as Thor".
"Jumping on" to a title used to be so simple that a child could do it. As
millions did every year in drug stores and 7-11s all over the country.
But by your estimation today, this proverbial (and mythical) child would
need to walk into a specially designated comic shop, look for "the most
recent #1" and ask the "friendly" (lol!) staff about where to start and if
they would please provide the necessary basic knowledge about comics.
How could it be more inherently confusing now than it was then?
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 17 November 2016 at 6:41pm | IP Logged | 2
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The DC Rebirth books are all doing shorter story arcs now, and in the age of digital distribution, we aren't seeing those decompressed, written-for-the-trade single issues like we were 2000-05. Trade papebacks still collect everything in four-to-eight-issue clumps, but I misspoke when I said that everything's a six-issue arc these days.
"Jane Foster as Thor" isn't any different than Beta Ray Bill, Eric Masterson, or any of the other fill-in Thor storylines that served as some reader's introduction in the past. I don't think there's one major superhero who hasn't had a replacement version taking his place for several months or even years at a clip. Retailers and comic shop owners have had to deal with the story in the comic not matching the story in TV cartoons and movies for decades now.
I realize I'm spoiled for good comic shops where I live, but if I walk in and say that I've heard good things about Ms. Marvel or Hellcat or literally any comic, and that I'm on a five-dollar budget, they'll make sure I leave with the right book. But if I pick up any random issue that I've flipped through in the store that catches my eye, I'm sure I'll be fine, too.
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Nic Pendaryn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 4
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| Posted: 18 November 2016 at 1:18pm | IP Logged | 3
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"Jane Foster as Thor" isn't any different than Beta Ray Bill, Eric Masterson, or any of the other fill-in Thor storylines that served as some reader's introduction in the past. I don't think there's one major superhero who hasn't had a replacement version taking his place for several months or even years at a clip. Retailers and comic shop owners have had to deal with the story in the comic not matching the story in TV cartoons and movies for decades now.
--------------------------------------------------
I agree with this. My introduction to Iron Man in the comics was James Rhodes back in the 80's and there were things like Spider-Man going around in a completely different costume. A new character with a pre-existing name is really not new. Just ask DC!
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6413
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| Posted: 18 November 2016 at 1:50pm | IP Logged | 4
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Andrew: "Jane Foster as Thor" isn't any different than Beta Ray Bill
**
You mean back when Beta Ray Bill took Thor's hammer away and Thor wasn't
allowed to be Thor for one whole single issue before everything got sorted
out?
Yeah, I'm not sure you are very good at detecting "differences".
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Don Zomberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 November 2005
Posts: 2355
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| Posted: 18 November 2016 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 5
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Just because something isn't "new", Nic, doesn't make it a good idea. And Marvel copying DC's approach to diluting their characters is part of what's destroying the company and the comics.
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Don Zomberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 November 2005
Posts: 2355
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| Posted: 18 November 2016 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | 6
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I've never understood fans who cheered on Rhodey's time as Iron Man with the claim that the books were good. Couldn't the books have been good with Tony Stark in the armor and not passed out in an alley somewhere?
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Nic Pendaryn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 4
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| Posted: 18 November 2016 at 2:46pm | IP Logged | 7
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I'm not saying it's always good but fans should just realize that comics have been this way for a long time. Personally, I prefer the Silver Age versions of Green Lantern and Flash, so I would say those were good changes to pre-existing characters (and they incorporated the original versions later anyway, so...everyone won there, I guess)
I'm also not saying Rhodey as Iron Man was better than Stark, but that was what it was the first time I read an Iron Man comic. I wasn't confused by it anymore than I was that Spider-man was wearing a different outfit than what I normally saw him in. It just was what it was.
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Mario Ribeiro
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2016
Location: Brazil
Posts: 474
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| Posted: 18 November 2016 at 8:23pm | IP Logged | 8
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A civilian (or lapsed reader) should not be afraid to try. If s/he doesn't understand what's going on, too bad, lost money, no big problem. But this idea that you can't follow a story unless you know everything is ridiculous. I stopped collecting 20 years ago, but I can follow pretty much any TPB I try. A few surprises here and there, a few unknown characters, but it's not really that hard if you accept the information they provide (usually very early on).
Big events may be harder, though.
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Trevor Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 3540
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| Posted: 19 November 2016 at 5:22am | IP Logged | 9
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"I stopped collecting 20 years ago, but I can follow
pretty much any TPB I try."
**
A trade is one thing, but I'm fairly certain the
discussion centers around picking up random single
issues.
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Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11294
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| Posted: 19 November 2016 at 7:38am | IP Logged | 10
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Rhodey wearing the armour is one thing,a whole line of characters and teams that bear no relation to their history or current movies is another!
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Mario Ribeiro
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2016
Location: Brazil
Posts: 474
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| Posted: 19 November 2016 at 9:10am | IP Logged | 11
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Yeah, Trevor, but I don't try random single issues, and who does, really? We did it back then because it was all that was available to us. Plus, don't they have text explaining what happened previously? Everything that matters to the story should be clear, but a lot of civilians/ lapsed readers seem to believe that they have to know every little bit before diving in, and that's false. Some of the stuff don't matter. And some of the stuff we figure out.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 19 November 2016 at 11:25am | IP Logged | 12
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Mario, I think you may be oversimplifying it a bit.
Who does try random single issues? Me. I haven't collected a new Marvel comic for a while... so ANY book I purchase (save a reprint) will be random, and I assure you I'm not blowing twenty-five dollars to pick up six issues to try to get a story arc just to see if I like it.
"Don't they have text explaining what happened previously?" I don't know; do they? This was done for a little while, and then stopped when Marvel found it was taking up valuable ad space.
"A lot of civilians/ lapsed readers seem to believe that they have to know every little bit before diving in..." I don't need to know EVERY detail... but "Thor is a woman, Iron Man is a little girl, the Fantastic Four don't exist anymore" are not exactly little bits.
"Some of the stuff we figure out" - that's true, but I don't want to have to work that hard at my entertainment. I guess some do... but sometimes, a comic book is just a comic book. :)
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