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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6406
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| Posted: 16 November 2016 at 11:14pm | IP Logged | 1
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Andrew: The notion that today's comics are somehow a lot more
impenetrable than they were in the seventies, eighties, and nineties
doesn't hold up for me.
**
3 very different eras you are lumping together there.
Just because you had the patience to wade in during the continuity-
choked beginning of the end doesn't mean that the seventies or eighties
were the same as the nineties. The early and late eighties aren't even
much alike in this score, much less the seventies and the nineties.
Your statement that picking up a comic today is no different than picking
up a TV series in mid-stream doesn't hold up for the simple reason that
today's comic books, for the most part, do not contain nearly the same
amount of story as an episode of TV and are therefor choked off in two
directions. They are a challenge to penetrate without prior knowledge and
they end before giving you enough info to really clue you in. This is also
vastly different from how comics were written in the seventies (when they
had half the pages!).
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35921
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| Posted: 17 November 2016 at 12:09am | IP Logged | 2
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Andrew Bitner wrote:
| UNWORTHY THOR will be starting its run soon... |
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There's actually going to be a comic from Marvel titled "Unworthy Thor"?!? Wow. Full sarcasm up, can't wait to read that! Yikes.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35921
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| Posted: 17 November 2016 at 12:22am | IP Logged | 3
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Andrew W. Farago wrote:
| it's not any different than starting to watch a TV show that you've heard about midway through the fourth season and picking it up as you go along. |
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Anecdotal to be sure, but I don't know anyone who does this anymore. Seriously. In this day and age where stories aren't of the one and done variety but are season and. more often, series long arcs people binge from the beginning. You hear about how great THE WALKING DEAD is? You don't start with Season 5, you go back and watch from Season 1, Ep 1. Why? Not only because you can but because you get so much more out of the characters and the story than you do trying to jump on board midstream. If I'd have jumped on board of SONS OF ANARCHY at Season 4, I know my experience would be "less than" those who had seen if from the beginning. It just would have, so I marathoned it. And I'm glad I did.
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Shane Matlock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 August 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1760
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| Posted: 17 November 2016 at 12:34am | IP Logged | 4
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Marvel is really dropping the ball by having all these newer versions of their classic characters (Dr. Doom Iron Man and the female Iron Man, Jane Foster Thor, Falcon Captain America, Old Man Logan, Amadeus Cho Hulk, etc) and DC is killing them in sales as a result by having the actual classic versions of their characters in the books, making them more in line with their various TV shows and movies. If someone likes Thor in the Thor or Avengers movies and tries to read the comic book now it's just going to be utter confusion and, frankly, probably disinterest because that is not the character they like in the films. It seems like DC realized where they screwed up with New 52 and took the appropriate measures with Rebirth and have gotten a real sales boost and interest in their titles, but Marvel just keeps going the course with having this "all new" crap, that neither newer readers or long time readers have any interest in. The most recent Marvel title I bought was Totally Awesome Hulk and that was just because it had Frank Cho art and while it wasn't terrible I couldn't stop thinking, man, I wish this was the Bruce Banner Hulk and I bet anyone who liked Hulk in the movies and picked this title up would probably be like WTF is this? I dropped the title as soon as Cho quit doing the art and read not long after that that Marvel killed Bruce Banner. Ugh. Is Marvel just not paying attention to sales figures and can't figure out what the readers actually want? They really should.
And Unworthy Thor sounds terrible.
Edited by Shane Matlock on 17 November 2016 at 12:34am
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Trevor Thompson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 June 2015
Posts: 346
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| Posted: 17 November 2016 at 4:30am | IP Logged | 5
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Unworthy Thor? Whatever happened to our heroes being, er...heroic? Marvel have become nothing but a comic book company that publishes fan fic.
Edited by Trevor Thompson on 17 November 2016 at 4:32am
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Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11294
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| Posted: 17 November 2016 at 6:19am | IP Logged | 6
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As someone who started reading Uncanny X-Men with issue #113,i didn`t need to read any previous issues to enjoy the story,the storyline was recapped unobtrusively in the issue,and the little box at the top of the splash page introduced me to the concept of the X-Men.If i was to pick up a current issue of any Marvel title of today,i doubt i would be served so well.Also,Marvel seem to have bought `The Big Book Of How NOT To Run A Business` and followed it to the letter! Billion Dollar movie franchises of YOUR characters(Even the minor characters!) and you treat any prospective buyers of your comics to...anything but what they`re seeing on screen!
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Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
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| Posted: 17 November 2016 at 7:09am | IP Logged | 7
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I agree, Bill. It's an odd choice. Marvel seems to think they're writing today's comics for the movies that will be made 8-10 years from now, sacrificing a few small sales in the ten of thousands of dollars range now to achieve those billion dollar sales later down the line. After all, if Riri catches fire, then whoever plays her in the movies, likely someone who's less than five years old today, will be a big star, and Marvel will be laughing all the way to the bank.
Plus, they truly believe today's readers won't sit still for recaps, flashbacks, internal dialogue in the form of thought balloons, or stories that take place in a short period of time. They've built a readership that no longer expects a comic to provide anything but two or three glimpses into extended plotlines, driven almost entirely by dialogue and a couple of large-scale action set-pieces; something that can be read in less than five minutes and only advances the overall story by a similar amount of time.
This "real-time" approach to comics makes it easier to build trade paperback sales, where a good portion of their money is made, and seems just fine to the smaller readership buying books today. If they want the complete arc, trades are where they know to look for it, spending $20- $40 for an Iron Man story, whereas you or I used to spend a couple of bucks for one over the course of a few months.
Me, I'd rather read about they guys I'm seeing onscreen, but the company doesn't seem to think my money today is worth the effort of picking up on their mad dash towards future profits from trades and films.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15935
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| Posted: 17 November 2016 at 7:47am | IP Logged | 8
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Anecdotal to be sure, but I don't know anyone who does this anymore. ------------------------------------------------------------ ----- I joined the Good Wife for the last three seasons and have never seen any before then.
Which, admittedly, doesn't add much to the discussion and is no less anecdotal then your comment... but nevertheless!
Edited by Peter Martin on 17 November 2016 at 7:50am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 17 November 2016 at 8:15am | IP Logged | 9
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"Unworthy Thor" somehow reminds me of a writer, years ago, saying he was doing a story about a "calm Hulk." I said "Isn't a calm Hulk Bruce Banner?"
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7526
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| Posted: 17 November 2016 at 8:33am | IP Logged | 10
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See also:
apathetic Spider-Man
neoconservative Captain America
Batman taking a night off
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 17 November 2016 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | 11
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You hear about how great THE WALKING DEAD is? You don't start with Season 5, you go back and watch from Season 1, Ep 1. Why? Not only because you can but because you get so much more out of the characters and the story than you do trying to jump on board midstream.
And if you're trying a new series by buying an issue online, you'll go to the most recent #1 to give it a shot, which will establish everything you need to know about the comic. And if you're walking into a comic shop, you'll probably look for a #1 or ask your friendly staff where to start, especially if you've got some basic knowledge about comics already.
But issue four of a six-part story arc today isn't inherently more confusing than it was ten, twenty, or thirty years ago. Readers who aren't steeped in the current continuity will figure out pretty quickly if they like the art, writing, and basic premise of a book.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 17 November 2016 at 2:49pm | IP Logged | 12
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But issue four of a six-part story arc today isn't inherently more confusing than it was ten, twenty, or thirty years ago.
***
Just my view, but I feel folk here, including myself, are simplifying things.
Sure, some books are easier ot "jump onto" than others. If you pick up 2000 AD, the contents page always has a brief intro about Judge Dredd, Mega-City One, etc. So that's simple enough to jump on board with. There are usually recaps.
Bit different with some, though. I found DC very impenetrable around the years 2000-2005.
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Topic Closed)
