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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 16 November 2016 at 11:17am | IP Logged | 1
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The sheer number of What If issue scenarios that later went on to become storylines, massive crossovers, and titles is surprising and points out that the editorial theory behind that book and the company itself today run along similar lines: How do we overturn the apple cart this month? What sacred shibboleth is left that we haven't desecrated?
This latest trend is keeping the character's name while switching out every other aspect of the book; the identity of the individual in the costume, their color, age, gender, story, relationship to the role... Thor was the name of the guy in the Thor comic. Now, Thor was that once upon a time, but is now a role which may be assumed by Jane Foster, who is worthy of it at a time when The Asgardian Formerly Known As Thor is not. Iron Man is now Riri, a 15-year old girl. The Hulk is Jennifer Walters. Recent creation Spider-Gwen looks positively regressive for not in fact assuming the role of Spider-Man herself while Peter, I don't know, retires in shame after eating long-time foe, Dr. Octopus. "He was rubbery," Parker said during the web-shooter turnover ceremony.
At the very most basic level, the company and creators see what they are doing as a fulfillment of their basic contract with the reader; Keep things interesting; Give them a ride.
The stories have little to no relationship with the past and in that sense, largely follow a piece of advice given here on this board. No one has to know anything from beyond five years ago. The story is supposed still the same long thread, but since the most basic premises of the books are now up for grabs, the ties to the past are of little to no importance any longer. If you come in to Iron Man now, really all you have to know is Riri, and she hasn't been around that long.
Perhaps it's seen by those in charge as a means of actually "fixing" long-standing continuity issues and opening up the tent to all comers. Those who have stuck around all these years have to eat a lot more nonsense than they'd like (still easier than chewing on a robot tentacle), but for those who are only there because comics are interesting and they want a ride, the company and creators are giving them one.
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Joseph Greathouse Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 August 2015 Location: United States Posts: 591
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Posted: 16 November 2016 at 11:20am | IP Logged | 2
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"Beta Ray Bill or Erik Masterson didn't call themselves Thor (well, for a brief time, Masterson was running a hoax) because Thor is Thor. The job's already taken."
Actually, he was first merged with Thor, but were separate beings. This was done to save Masterson's life. So Masterson would hit the cane, and Thor would come "out", and Masterson would go "in". This was in Thor, 408.
In Thor 432, (2 years later) Thor was to be banished for all eternity for killing Loki. Thor asked that earth not be left defenseless, so Masterson was turned into Thor (pretty much exactly as Jane Foster today) where he had his own consciousness in both identities.
In Thor 459, (2 more years) Thor came back, retook his mantle, and Masterson was given the identity of Thunderstrike, till (2 years after that) he was killed.
So it was definitely more than a "hoax". And, at this point, she has been Thor for the exact amount of time as Erik Masterson.
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Eric Sofer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 4789
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Posted: 16 November 2016 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 3
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Joseph Greathouse - thank you for the explanation. It's god damned insane, but that's hardly your doing.
JG: "...at this point, she has been Thor for the exact amount of time as Erik Masterson." Perhaps that's a bit like saying gasoline is 150% what it was last year... the same duration as occurred in 1978. In other words, I hope you didn't take any impression from me that I thought EITHER of these Thor mistakes is a good idea! :)
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 16 November 2016 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 4
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Thanks for your views, everyone. And, yes, I do see where Peter is coming from.
It's interesting how some franchises have remained unchanged. I haven't read many TMNT comics, but when I have, the premise/characters seem pretty much unchanged. Same, to a certain extent, with James Bond. There's a lesson there, methinks.
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Trevor Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 3540
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Posted: 16 November 2016 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | 5
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"Then again... right now, the Avengers are no longer the ones who appeared in the movie, right? Different people are Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, the Hulk, Hawkeye, Spider-Man, Captain Marvel... how could ANYONE pick up a book and understand that?"
**
OK, while this does not literally make me smack my head in amazement and frustration, I can picture it so vividly I can almost feel it. Here we have a movie where the characters, FOR THE MOST PART are based on the classic Marvel versions. Literally MILLIONS of people are seeing these movies, and the characters are experiencing unprecedented exposure and popularity. WHY ARE THE CHARACTERS IN THE CURRENT COMICS ALMOST COMPLETELY UNLIKE WHAT PEOPLE ARE CURRENTLY *LOVING* ON THE SCREEN?
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Bill Collins Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Location: England Posts: 11294
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Posted: 16 November 2016 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | 6
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If she`s dying of cancer,why does she not remain in her Thor(Thora?) form permanently? Robbie,if i was you,i`d recommend that your friend gives it a miss,if his last experience of Thor was Walt`s run,the only way is down!
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 16 November 2016 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 7
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Yes, I may recommend something else.
Although Peter Martin made convincing and compelling arguments, I do understand my friend. I felt at a loss, myself, in the past. I read some CRISIS stuff years ago. Can't recall which. INFINITE CRISIS, FINAL CRISIS, whatever. Totally impenetrable!
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Andrew W. Farago Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4079
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Posted: 16 November 2016 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | 8
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My two cents:
If your friend's jumping in with trade paperbacks, his local comic shop can easily hook him up with the first volume featuring some particular creative team or direction he might enjoy. If he wants to try some single issues to see what floats his boat, the first issue of a recent story arc is probably still on the stands.
The notion that today's comics are somehow a lot more impenetrable than they were in the seventies, eighties, and nineties doesn't hold up for me. I started reading when Spider-Man was wearing his black costume, dated the Black Cat, and barely told jokes when he fought crime; John Walker was Captain America; I didn't recognize any of the Avengers; the X-Men and New Mutants and X-Factor were all unknown to me and in the midst of a crossover that was building on years' worth of backstory; and on and on. DC had gone through the Crisis on Infinite Earths recently, so all of the familiar status quos there were out the window, too.
But everything for me fell into the confusing-enough-to-be-interesting category, so I stuck around. Starting off with some random issue of a comic book today isn't any more daunting than it was decades ago, and it's not any different than starting to watch a TV show that you've heard about midway through the fourth season and picking it up as you go along.
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Joseph Greathouse Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 August 2015 Location: United States Posts: 591
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Posted: 16 November 2016 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | 9
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I agree with you Andrew. And I don't feel that trades are needed to jump in. Its a $3 investment in entertainment. The comics are just fine for someone who doesn't know anything, or knows very little. They really are only impenetrable to those that are fans who have lapsed or only casually followed.
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Phillip L Lightfoot Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 February 2015 Location: United States Posts: 109
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Posted: 16 November 2016 at 5:01pm | IP Logged | 10
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I just read Ragnarok. Now, THAT'S Thor!
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 16 November 2016 at 9:46pm | IP Logged | 11
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Bill, I'm only speculating here, but if Jane Foster were to remain in possession of Thor's power for her own benefit, in effect "hiding" from death behind Odin's skirts, she would no longer be considered "worthy" of the power by Asgardian standards, and would lose everything. Fortunately for her, being worthy, the notion to do so likely wouldn't occur to her as readily as it might for others. Just blue-skying, since I haven't read the book in quite a while.
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Bill Collins Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Location: England Posts: 11294
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Posted: 16 November 2016 at 10:48pm | IP Logged | 12
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Brian,i never thought of that!
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