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Mike Norris
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Posted: 15 August 2016 at 9:26pm | IP Logged | 1  

 Eric Jansen wrote:
The Golden Age Egyptian reincarnation origin which has been revived in the comics in recent years and on TV is one note and makes for maybe one good six-issue mini-series
Not sure why this is a problem. An origin should give a hero his powers and motivation. It doesn't have to figure in every story.A six issue origin story might be too long. 
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Stephen Robinson
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Posted: 15 August 2016 at 11:05pm | IP Logged | 2  

Rereading Dr. Strange's origin, it stands out as a stark contrast to the
Randian philosphy Ditko followed. Pre-accident Strange could be the
hero in Atlas Shrugged.
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 15 August 2016 at 11:18pm | IP Logged | 3  

@Mike Norris--The origin sets up the WHOLE series!  The origin of THOR sets up a thousand stories!  The origin of THE FANTASTIC FOUR sets up their whole explorer motif, as well as the no secret identity thing, the bickering/interaction, Reed & Sue's romance, etc.--hundreds of stories come right out of those basics.

The Egyptian Hawkman origin centers on reincarnation and Hath-Set as the villain--changed to Vandal Savage for the LEGENDS OF TOMORROW TV show.  Reincarnation tempts the writer to kill somebody and follow a new incarnation--which they did with Shiera and Kendra Saunders!  The Egyptian motif could have multiple story potential in theory, but in practice it ends up centering on Hath-Set and revenge--and Hath-Set (or the TV version of Vandal Savage) is just not a very compelling arch-villain.

I think the Thanagar origin has MUCH more potential--it's very open-ended.  Adventures on Thanagar, being torn between Thanagar and Earth, fighting super-villains on Earth--just like with THOR and adventures on Asgard, being torn between Asgard and Earth, fighting super-villains on Earth!  MUCH more endless story potential than the--yawn--reincarnated Hath-Set wants reincarnated Shayera.


Edited by Eric Jansen on 15 August 2016 at 11:20pm
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 15 August 2016 at 11:45pm | IP Logged | 4  

Thankfully, the thread says "favorite" rather than best. With that in mind, I'm going to go with some of my favorites instead of so many cited here, which I agree are "better" for any number of reasons...

1. Superman- Okay, often mentioned so far, but the implications and resonance of this simple, yet multi-faceted story continue to generate wonder for me even today. Like "The Wizard of Oz," the story has been retold and re-imagined so many times, in so many different ways, and even though they often strike false notes and miss or ignore important aspects, it's still kind of fascinating watching it all fall apart or come together each time. Not just one of my favorite comic-book origin stories; the story of Superman is one of my favorite stories, period.

2. Plastic Man- He's the bad guy. The type of third-rate mob guy Batman usually knocks out with a batarang on his way to more important things... But on a bad robbery, his pals betray him when things go wrong, and it looks like the end of the road for a bum who never made a right call in his entire miserable life... And then it isn't. He's saved by an unselfish act of long-term kindness and realizes he has a chance to turn things around; a chance to do things right for a change. And he does, by being smart, creative, and keeping a sense of humor in a world so far gone the path of insanity you'd have to be nuts yourself to think you could do anything to fix it. He isn't nuts, though. He's the sanest guy on the planet, Heaven help him... 

3. Deadman- A rough and tumble guy who isn't nice to be around. Why should he be? He's the star of a circus, sure, but that's just long hours and hard work in a world where everyone's on the road for some reason and it's usually not because they make friends wherever they go. He likens the place to a kindergarten where every kid keeps a loaded shotgun in his desk. But he's damned good at it, and he's going to do right by the business he's in, he's going to do right by the girl he loves and keeps clear of for her own good, he's going to do right by her dead father... He's the guy keeping it all together for everyone else, and then he's killed, and gets to hang around afterwards to watch it all come apart. Except it kind of doesn't... Sure, they all needed him, but did they? Really? The circus actually survives his departure. He finds out after he's dead there's a bigger picture... And things still for him to do, but in the end, is there any kind of justice to it all? Any sense of balance? Of fairness? Alive or dead, what is the point?

4. Doctor Doom- While I don't care much for the various addendums and extras, reinterpretations and reimaginings tacked onto it over the years, I do like Lee and Kirby's basic story of an orphaned East European child come to the U.S. and betrayed by the shallow jealousies of a pampered, over-praised, vacuous mathematics student, oblivious to the forces with which Doom conjures... Perhaps that is not the way lesser men see it, but they do not possess the vision and perspective... of Doom!! 

5. Batman- No, his is really the best of the lot... Spider-Man's is close, but I've never been a big Spidey fan. I like him fine, but he just doesn't hit me where I live. Batman, however... There really is nothing else in the world like a really well-told Batman story, and his origin may be the best one out there. 

I should mention that I have a special fondness for characters like Captain Kirk, Columbo, or John Steed & Emma Peel who have no real origin story and manage to do quite well without one. They don't seem lacking in motivation or lacking in dimension just because we've never been invited backstage with them to witness "Day One" of their careers. Dick Tracy, The Spirit, and Space Ghost all have origins, but they don't inform the rest of their lives and careers as crimefighters. Really, if you don't know their origin stories, you're fine. 

Well done origins are nice to have, but the perceived need for one in every case gets in the way sometimes, and can even overturn the apple cart every now and then.

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 16 August 2016 at 12:46am | IP Logged | 5  

Batman- No, his is really the best of the lot... Spider-Man's is close, but I've never been a big Spidey fan. I like him fine, but he just doesn't hit me where I live. Batman, however... There really is nothing else in the world like a really well-told Batman story, and his origin may be the best one out there. 
++++++++

When this question comes up, I like to answer that Batman has the best origin in comics, and Spider-Man has the best origin story in comics.

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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 16 August 2016 at 6:28am | IP Logged | 6  

I had a post written but reconsidered it. :)

Edited by Andrew Bitner on 16 August 2016 at 6:30am
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 16 August 2016 at 7:59am | IP Logged | 7  

Greg, nicely put. Really, if no other Spider-Man story after Amazing Fantasy #15 was ever published, that would still stand as an excellent story, all on its own.

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Craig Markley
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Posted: 16 August 2016 at 10:57am | IP Logged | 8  

Captain America
Captain Marvel
Spider-Man
Superman
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
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Rick Senger
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Posted: 16 August 2016 at 11:39am | IP Logged | 9  

I'd argue that Stephen Strange's origin arc is very heroic. He seeks the Ancient One for selfish reasons, then decides to pursue magic to selflessly help the man who would not help him!
*****
Indeed.  I also liked that it turned out The Ancient One was not as helpless as he appeared and that this was all an additional hidden "test" for Strange.  As I said above, a very satisfying origin story for a character who for me while still enjoyable ultimately became somewhat one note and never quite as good as his origin. 
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Warren Scott
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Posted: 16 August 2016 at 1:34pm | IP Logged | 10  

The ones that came first to my mind were cited by many others:
1. Spider-Man
2. Superman (Probably the best because two places - Krypton and Kansas - played a big part in who he is, regardless of who writes the stories.)
3. Batman
4. Green Lantern (It offers the best of both varieties: Hal became GL both because of Abin Sur's accident and because of his character. At least,character is how I like to think of it. Being fearless actually could lead you to do some stupid things.)
5 The Fantastic Four (I still remember a Power Records version of it that really entertained me as a kid.)
I hadn't considered Plastic Man but am convinced it's in the top 10 after hearing Brian Hague's assessment.
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Stephen Robinson
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Posted: 16 August 2016 at 4:03pm | IP Logged | 11  

BRIAN: 5. Batman- No, his is really the best of the lot... Spider-Man's is close,
but I've never been a big Spidey fan. I like him fine, but he just doesn't hit me
where I live. Batman, however... There really is nothing else in the world like a
really well-told Batman story, and his origin may be the best one out there.

I should mention that I have a special fondness for characters like Captain Kirk,
Columbo, or John Steed & Emma Peel who have no real origin story and
manage to do quite well without one.

SER: There is something very primal about Batman's origin, which speaks so
clearly to every child's biggest fear. One of my favorite comic book covers is
BATMAN 404 (YEAR ONE PT 1) for this reason.

However, Batman's origin wasn't told until seven months after his first
appearance (only five months before Robin appears). Arguably, up until that
point, he *is* like Kirk, Steed, and Peel -- he does what he does because he
does it. And we don't really need to know more.

Bruce Wayne's also engaged -- a concept that would seem alien now for the
"too brooding to have time to shave" version of the character.

And after his origin was introduced, he remained as well-adjusted as Bruce
Wayne as ever -- still capable of cracking a joke and pursuing a romantic
relationship.

Now we are subjected to slow-motion black-and-white flashbacks to the
Wayne murders in three movies within 25 years.

Origins generally provide motivation or explanation or both. Flash's classic
origin explains why he's able to move at super speed, but it doesn't dwell on
why he becomes a hero. It's just the right thing to do.
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Bill Catellier
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Posted: 16 August 2016 at 5:28pm | IP Logged | 12  

Superman: my favorite.  Works best when he's the SOLE survivor. 
Batman: a close second.  Tragedy forged into heroism. 
Captain Marvel: total wish fulfillment. 
Spider-man: with great power comes great responsibility.  
Fantastic Four: still exciting. 

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