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Matthew Chartrand
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 1357
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| Posted: 13 August 2016 at 11:08pm | IP Logged | 1
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1. Fantastic four2. Spider-man 3. Galactus 4. Captain America 5. Dreadstar
The next five would be DC.
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Trevor Thompson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 June 2015
Posts: 346
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| Posted: 14 August 2016 at 3:39am | IP Logged | 2
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Dr StrangeSpider-man Batman
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133328
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| Posted: 14 August 2016 at 4:54am | IP Logged | 3
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Speaking in general, I think the best origins are the ones that can be done and mostly forgotten. Many Golden Age character began without origins at all -- Batman as a prominent example. Others, as well as Silver Age character, had origins that served to knock over the first domino, but aside from occasional recaps once a year or so (or less) were barely referenced again. Superman got thru the first ten years of his publishing history without knowing his own beginnings!Unfortunately, we have seen a shift toward origin stories becoming more and more important -- entire issues (or more!) being spent on building up to the moment the main character becomes the name on the cover. (The most egregious being ESSENTIAL SPIDER-MAN that took six issues to retell something Lee and Ditko had done in something like eleven pages.) With this emphasis on origins there also comes a need to constantly revisit and deconstruct a character's beginnings. Look what happened to Batman. Spider-Man presents an interesting example. An iconic origin leading to "With great power there must also come great responsibility." Yet in the first issue of his own comic, Spider-Man's origin was "edited" to eliminate his guilt. Uncle Ben is still murdered, but Peter is no longer indirectly responsible.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 14 August 2016 at 5:28am | IP Logged | 4
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Superman got thru the first ten years of his publishing history without knowing his own beginnings!
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I feel it used to work well on TV, too (and in movies). The origin of THE A-TEAM was covered in a recap and in DR NO, Bond was simply fully-formed.
I am not sure either of those examples gained anything by having to have origin tales years later.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133328
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| Posted: 14 August 2016 at 6:15am | IP Logged | 5
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Origins used to be simple. The X-Men, as you may recall, did not have individual origins for years, and the origin of the team was summed up in a couple of panels by Xavier talking to the newly arrived Jean Grey. In the process he gave his own "origin" (born of parents who worked on the first atomic bomb project*), and by inference told us how the other mutants came to be.A big part of the problem is the general impatience of the audience, amplified as the fringe has moved closer to the center. These are the people who want to know everything, and they want to know it now. (I recieved letters of complaint when I did not reveal Lois Lane to be an Army brat in the first issue of MAN OF STEEL. This, even tho MoS was advertised as a miniseries, so one would expect the readers to know that information would come with each new issue.) _______________ * Making him about 20 years old in X-MEN 1.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 14 August 2016 at 7:10am | IP Logged | 6
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I am somewhat more fond of origins where heroes are not just given powers, but have to train to become heroes ("accidental" heroes.) I think that's a bit more realistic, and I think it also would make a great follow up if such a story is desired - I'd buy a mini-series showing how Bruce Wayne went around the world, learning the tools of his craft.
Thus, my favorite origins will probably include (in no order) Batman (and Robin), Captain America, Black Canary, and Daredevil. If I were to pick a favorite, I think it would be Black Lightning - who has TWO origin stories!
I count Captain America pretty high because he received his "powers", but he still had to train to use them properly. Otherwise, he's just a big, strong, fast guy who doesn't know how to fight, or use his shield, or know anything about tactics.
Of course, as Mr. Byrne has cited several times, Roger Stern probably had the right origin for most heroes. |
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John Popa
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 March 2008
Posts: 4467
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| Posted: 14 August 2016 at 8:07am | IP Logged | 7
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Definitely the HULK for me, but becoming a monster was always the more exciting prospect for me.
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Bill Mimbu
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 7368
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| Posted: 14 August 2016 at 8:42am | IP Logged | 8
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1 Fantastic Four
2 Superman
3 Captain America
4 Ultraman (Shin Hayata)
5 The Hulk
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 14 August 2016 at 9:32am | IP Logged | 9
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Definitely the HULK for me, but becoming a monster was always the more exciting prospect for me.
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Is there a reason the 1977 Hulk TV movie went with a different origin?
I'm wondering, surely all of the elements (Jack McGee, Banner on the run) could have remained had the pilot movie featured an origin akin to the first issue of the comic?
I'm guessing budgets - but would the budget really not have stretched to filming a scene in the desert with a gamma bomb?
Not complaining, just curious. One person did tell me (he couldn't tell me where he'd heard it) that the TV series changed the origin because the producers felt it would have been irresponsible to show an atomic weapon being tested outdoors? If true, well it is only fiction, surely that wouldn't have offended people?
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 14 August 2016 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | 10
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Spider-Man's origin is a solid story with a beginning, middle, and end.
Peter Parker grows and changes, having learned a hard lesson by the
end. With minor tweaks, it could have been a TWILIGHT ZONE
episode.
But most characters don't require a lengthy origin story. Superman's
origin is cool but do we need it covered again at length? Do we need to
see Clark Kent become Superman? I'd love a Superman movie that
was fully in medias res and just had a few lines from the Kents about
discovering his rocket ship.
We had no idea how Dick Grayson came to live with Bruce Wayne or
how he became Robin in the 1960s Batman series. And we didn't really
need it,
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 14 August 2016 at 2:07pm | IP Logged | 11
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ROBBIE: Is there a reason the 1977 Hulk TV movie went with a
different origin?
I'm wondering, surely all of the elements (Jack McGee, Banner on the
run) could have remained had the pilot movie featured an origin akin to
the first issue of the comic?
SER: David Banner strikes me as an entirely different character than
Bruce Banner. David's story is almost Greek tragedy. His fatal flaw is an
inability to accept powerlessness, to accept that he couldn't control fate
and prevent his wife's death. He was so obsessed that he recklessly
experimented on himself -- gaining the power he would have needed to
save his wife but losing the wisdom necessary to use it.
Bruce Banner risked his life to save a kid who foolishly drove out onto a
testing site on a dare. Adulthood took the "hit" for youth, as it often
does. Bruce, unlike David, does nothing wrong. Yes, creators who
reject the time in which the story took place believe that building
weapons is inherently bad and The Hulk is Bruce karmic debt for doing
so, but that's not the story Lee/Kirby told.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 14 August 2016 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | 12
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Interesting words, Stephen.
Very few live-action pilots from that era matched the origins. Parker was bitten by a radioactive spider in the 1977 TV movie, but there was nothing about Uncle Ben or murderous burglars. Perhaps time restrictions played a part, too.
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Topic Closed)
