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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 20 July 2016 at 7:41am | IP Logged | 1
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Robbie Parry: I think the closest we ever got to a Luthor/Riddler team up was that they were both members of the Legion of Doom. Also, I thought of Man-Bat as an occasional adversary, but never a villain. I guess our mileages may vary... :)
Jason Czeskleba: Sure, I remember those Human Torch team ups. I just meant that, considering the first three issues of MTU, Marvel could have easily gone in a Human Torch direction rather than Spider-Man.
But upon reflection, I still think they could have gone with a different team-up without a star. It took until MTU #100 to have a team up without Spidey or the Torch, with Storm and the Black Panther. (Let me think, who drew that masterpiece...? :)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 20 July 2016 at 7:51am | IP Logged | 2
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(Let me think, who drew that masterpiece...? :) Masterpiece is a kind word! From the colorist making a White guy Black, to the ramifications that little tale unleashed. . . Where's my time machine!!
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 20 July 2016 at 7:57am | IP Logged | 3
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Mr. Byrne, you didn't have anything to do with the coloring (or so I've been led to believe) and anything after the fact about the story is whatever someone else found in their own minds and applied. One wonders that some hack writer didn't marry Ororo to Luke Cage... they shared four panels together once, so there MUST be a romantic history, right? :P
The story was pretty good - the art was sensational. And that's what I think, so you don't get to disagree. (I bought a book with Miller art and Byrne art... I was so excited about that book that I didn't know whether to put it at the top of my reading list or the bottom. So I did both.)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 20 July 2016 at 8:07am | IP Logged | 4
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Mr. Byrne, you didn't have anything to do with the coloring
Well, I sort of did, in that I drew what was OBVIOUSLY A WHITE CHARACTER* and somehow the colorist (and everyone who proof read the story) didn't get it. Proofreading alone should have caught that goof. An evil White guy hires a Black assassin to kill Black people? SO much wrong with that. But a White assassin? Now it makes sense. Years later the cosmic balance was restored, when a colorist on MAN OF STEEL made a Black character White. sigh
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 20 July 2016 at 9:41am | IP Logged | 5
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But upon reflection, I still think they could have gone with a different team-up without a star. I
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Team-ups should be fresh. There must be characters who've rarely/never met. Has Thor, for example, ever teamed up with Jessica Drew's Spider-Woman? Has Iron Fist ever worked with Silver Surfer? Has Dr. Strange ever worked solely with Wolverine?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 20 July 2016 at 10:40am | IP Logged | 6
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"Fresh" team-ups rarely seem of interest to many fans. During the days of regular Marvel/DC crossovers I quickly grew weary of the calls for Hawkeye/Green Arrow, Quicksilver/Flash, Sub-Mariner/Aquaman and other such uninspired couplings. Where were the calls for the Martian aka hunter teaming with the human torch?
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 20 July 2016 at 10:44am | IP Logged | 7
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Indeed.
When I used to do my own fan fiction, which I'm sure was lame, I always tried to go the opposite way. So if I had a water-dwelling character, I'd try and think of a space-dwelling character for him/her to team up with. If I had a vigilante to use in a story, I'd want the complete opposite as a partner.
Something like Hawkeye/Green Arrow would get tired for me (too many arrows!). However, put Iron Fist and Aquaman together in a cosmic realm somewhere and I might be intrigued.
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7526
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| Posted: 20 July 2016 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | 8
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Unlikely pairings can inspire some really amazing stories. Fans should try to be more receptive, rather than gravitating toward "hey, here are two guys who do pretty much the same thing" so often.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
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Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 20 July 2016 at 12:16pm | IP Logged | 9
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Unlikely pairings can inspire some really amazing stories. Fans should try to be more receptive, rather than gravitating toward "hey, here are two guys who do pretty much the same thing" so often.
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I've been guilty of it at a young age. Aquaman/Namor. Hawkeye/Green Arrow. But as an adult, my desires are for completely different team-ups.
I'm the same with battles. No desire to see two winged characters - Angel and Vulture - fight, but give me Cap, who can't fly, and his shield against a flying Vulture and I will be interested in that.
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Paul Greer
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004
Posts: 14191
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| Posted: 20 July 2016 at 7:29pm | IP Logged | 10
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I came into the Champions backwards. I read the conclusion
to the series through Spectacular Spider-Man. I loved the
idea of readimg this series I had never heard of at that
point. I hunted down a bunch of back issues. Boy was I
disappointed. The JB issues were more pricey than the
earlier ones so I didn't read those until years later. This
was a hodge-podge of characters that didn't work together.
It didn't help that the writimg was not Tony's best.
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Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
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| Posted: 20 July 2016 at 10:11pm | IP Logged | 11
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JB wrote: "Where were the calls for the Martian aka hunter teaming with the human torch?"
Perhaps the fans had already read Fred Hembeck's "Abbott and Costello Meet the Bride of Hembeck," the one crossover story that makes all others unnecessary. :-)
It should be noted that J'onn did defeat Firestorm in JLA #200, and Firestorm is sort of the Human Torch plus Green Lantern... So I wouldn't count J'onn out too quickly in a fight with the Torch...
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 21 July 2016 at 5:15am | IP Logged | 12
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This was a hodge-podge of characters that didn't work together.
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Yes. Sometimes that can work - opposites attract and all that - but at other times, it does not work.
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Topic Closed)
