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Bill Collins Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Location: England Posts: 11296
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Posted: 18 July 2016 at 7:54am | IP Logged | 1
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I remember the U.K. Rampage monthly,it featured the black and white Hulk stories and The Uncanny X-Men(All New All Different) and was my only access to the Claremont/Cockrum and early J.B. issues! I would ride miles on my bike to find a newsagent that stocked it each month!(This would be around 1977/78/79?
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Brandon Carter Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2339
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Posted: 18 July 2016 at 8:23am | IP Logged | 2
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This was in the days of the Writer/Editors, one of the worst periods for creativity at Marvel. Ask to use Character A, and the writer/editor of his "home" title would invariably say "No, I have plans for him!"
(The most bizarre example of this was on TEAM-UP, where Chris and I felt we should be using actual Spider-Man villains from time to time. We decided on a "test case" with Kraven, who we thought was one of the second or third stringer. But the W/E said he had plans for Kraven -- in TWO YEARS!!
(We complained to Shooter, and he ordered the use of Kraven.)
****
That is much of the reason that MARVEL TEAM-UP never really felt like a "real" Spider-Man title to me. The more known Spider-Man villains seldom appeared and any important events in Spider-Man's life were going to happen in one of the solo titles, most likely AMAZING. Spider-Man was/is my favorite character and while I sought out to buy every AMAZING SPIDER-MAN issue, either in original or reprint form, I never felt the same compulsion to get every TEAM-UP issue. I mostly just bought back issues based on the guest stars I most wanted to read about.
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 18 July 2016 at 9:08am | IP Logged | 3
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That is much of the reason that MARVEL TEAM-UP never really felt like a "real" Spider-Man title to me. The more known Spider-Man villains seldom appeared and any important events in Spider-Man's life were going to happen in one of the solo titles, most likely AMAZING.
***
Looking back, I agree with you.
I didn't mind some of the supervillains who appeared, but at the time I do remember thinking, 'Where's Electro?' or 'Why can't the Sinister Six show up here?'.
Slightly off-topic, I often wondered if SUPER-VILLAIN TEAM-UP had any rules imposed on it. It seemed to be Namor and Doom for most of its run. Where were the likes of Goblin, Kingpin, Scorpion, etc?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133325
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Posted: 18 July 2016 at 9:12am | IP Logged | 4
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Roger Stern is wont to cite MARVEL TEAM-UP as the "death" of the real Marvel. It was the first time a character's integrity was blatantly sacrificed on the altar of Mammon. I've said, too, that I felt prepared to take on MTU when it was offered because it wasn't a REAL Spider-Man book.
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Eric Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013 Location: United States Posts: 2366
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Posted: 18 July 2016 at 11:58pm | IP Logged | 5
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I liked MARVEL TEAM-UP precisely because it was mostly divorced from all the continuity plotlines of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN. It was like "getting away for the weekend" from the daily grind of the work week (and maybe the wife and kids!). It was when PETER PARKER, THE SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN started that I knew there was going to be trouble. I could buy one "official" book and one "fun" book, but a THIRD one?!? That's going to mess up continuity, I thought--and I was right!
As for SUPER-VILLAIN TEAM-UP, it was clear to me (and maybe I was an exceptionally smart 9-12 year-old, but let's assume not) that it was just an excuse to give Dr. Doom and the Sub-Mariner--two very popular characters who just couldn't quite carry their own solo book--their own comic book (the first version of POWERMAN AND IRON FIST?) and that was fine with me! I enjoyed the comic a lot--until they dropped the Sub-Mariner in favor of the Red Skull ("What th--! I don't want to read a comic starring the Red Skull!") and then ultimately replace Doom with the Hate Monger ("Time to cancel!"). Somebody took the title literally and that ruined things. Maybe Roy Thomas should have just called it SUB-MARINER AND DR. DOOM to safeguard it!
I see that the relatively short-lived series (including the two Giant-Size issues) had FIVE editors! Roy Thomas started it with the high concept Giant-Size issues ("Let's give Namor and Doom their own double-sized comic!"), then went through Len Wein, Marv Wolfman, and Archie Goodwin with pretty good issues, but then ending up with Jim Salicrup editing the last few issues I hated. (Thank you Grand Comics Database for clearing 40 year-old mysteries for me!)
Edited by Eric Jansen on 19 July 2016 at 12:01am
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Jason Czeskleba Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004 Posts: 4622
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Posted: 19 July 2016 at 2:53am | IP Logged | 6
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Eric, the last three issues of Super Villain Team-Up were published after the book had been cancelled as an ongoing title (note the long periods of time, in some cases more than a year, between issues 14, 15 , 16 and 17). The only reason those later Salicrup-edited issues were published was to maintain Marvel's trademark on the phrase "super villain."
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 19 July 2016 at 2:56am
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 19 July 2016 at 3:04am | IP Logged | 7
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The SVTU issues were good, but when I first read them - in the age before the internet when there were no comic indexes - I was disappointed that it was solely Doom/Namor. I wanted to see Doom teaming up with Octopus, Green Goblin, Kingpin, etc. I would have liked to see Scorpion and Electro team up or Magneto and Mandarin.
I do think it should have been called something else. By the time I bought all the issues, and I did enjoy the storyline, I was disappointed that the majority were Doom and Namor.
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Eric Sofer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 4789
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Posted: 19 July 2016 at 9:16am | IP Logged | 8
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I had often considered that Spider-Man wasn't a great team up, and that Marvel might have gone in another direction after the first couple issues, and made it a Human Torch team book. After all, at this time, Marvel Two-In-One wasn't in existence.
But I don't know how well the Strange Tales stories were received (although the fact that the Thing was added to the stories may be an indicator), so another Human Torch strip might not have been ideal.
I suspect that most fans would have been much happier if MTU did not have any regular "star", but had a lot of team ups that that they wanted. But I guess they figured the book needed a draw, and Spider-Man sure was that.
And as we saw after the fact, the Champions definitely did not pull as a "team up" book.
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Jason Czeskleba Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004 Posts: 4622
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Posted: 19 July 2016 at 11:44am | IP Logged | 9
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Eric Sofer wrote:
I had often considered that Spider-Man wasn't a great team up, and that Marvel might have gone in another direction after the first couple issues, and made it a Human Torch team book. |
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The Torch was featured instead of Spider-Man in several early issues of Marvel Team-Up (issues #18, 23, 26, 29, 32 and 35). It's probably safe to assume those issues sold substantially worse than the issues with Spider-Man, and that's why they didn't continue.
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Bill Collins Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Location: England Posts: 11296
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Posted: 19 July 2016 at 1:33pm | IP Logged | 10
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I liked MTU,it was a way of us U.K. fans seeing non-distributed characters!
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 19 July 2016 at 3:12pm | IP Logged | 11
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I suspect that most fans would have been much happier if MTU did not have any regular "star", but had a lot of team ups that that they wanted.
***
When SECRET DEFENDERS made its debut (1992 or 1993, I think), a large part of the appeal for me was the rotation. Doctor Strange, at least for as long as I bought the book, was the "manager", but there were new and intriguing team-ups, i.e. Wolverine and Spider-Woman. Only reason I stopped buying the book is that there were no comic stores around and the local store couldn't always get it.
Predictability can be a good thing, but I'd welcome a team-up book (heroes or villains!) which had rotating and unexpected guest stars. I always wished DC would have done a super-villain team-up title. First issue could have been something like Lex Luthor and Riddler (have they ever teamed up?). Then perhaps we could have had something like Man-Bat and Black Manta. The unpredictability of it would have been exciting.
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Shane Matlock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 August 2012 Location: United States Posts: 1760
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Posted: 20 July 2016 at 3:04am | IP Logged | 12
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My first John Byrne comic was Marvel Team-Up #70. Didn't know a thing about creators but I knew the art looked better than anything I'd seen in a comic before. About a year or so later I got a copy of Avengers #181, my second comic with Byrne art in it and even though I'd read quite a few comics up til then, that's the one that really made me become a comic and a JB fan for life. It wasn't until probably Superman that I started buying a comic just because it was being done by JB, although it was his FF that got me back into comics after a hiatus around the age of 13, when I started being told by my parents and some peers that I was too old for comics.
Edit: Actually it was his six issue Hulk run that got me to pick up Hulk every month after buying it somewhat sporadically before that. I went back to buying it sporadically after that, and Alpha Flight I dropped altogether after he left. I got all the Superman and Action comics he did and had never bought Superman before that. All the Superman issues I had were seventies issues given to me by a cousin.
Now that I think about it, it was JB going to DC that made me start picking up more DC stuff. Before that I was only getting New Teen Titans and Legion of Superheroes, but after Byrne's Superman that expanded to other stuff like the new Justice League and Suicide Squad both of which came out of Legends. I did have quite a few DC comics prior to that that my cousin had given me and always enjoyed the Justice League of America ones (especially the JSA cross-overs, most of which I only had one part of) but, like I said, other than New Teen Titans and Legion I wasn't buying any DC books until JB left Marvel for DC. All the other comics I was into before that were Marvel books. I became a much bigger DC fan after that and it was all due to John Byrne.
Edited by Shane Matlock on 20 July 2016 at 3:24am
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