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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 16 July 2016 at 2:37am | IP Logged | 1
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Okay, bear in mind that I might not be totally accurate with the names of certain arcs/titles.
I remember one featuring Superboy-Prime. FINAL CRISIS, perhaps? Or something like that. Who was he? It wasn't explained in the issue. In comics of yesteryear, everyone, including the supporting cast, got some sort of explanation, even if it was a footnote. I could pick up a random Spider-Man issue and know who Jonah Jameson or the Lizard was. I had no idea who Superboy-Prime was in the rather esoteric book I read. Did they want me to head to Wikipedia?
Then there were multiple earths in one story. I thought they'd all gone with CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. No explanation.
A lot of old comics had little character origin boxes in the inside front cover or on the first page of the story. Footnotes were often used. You always knew someone's name by the end of the issue.
Edited by Robbie Parry on 16 July 2016 at 2:38am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 16 July 2016 at 6:21am | IP Logged | 2
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A lot of old comics had little character origin boxes in the inside front cover or on the first page of the story. •• One of the things Shooter did of which I fully approved was getting rid of the top copy on the splash pages. Those "origin recaps" often led to lazy writing, as it was assumed everyone would read those enclosed text fields before plunging into the book. I doubt this informed Shooter's decision, but studies have shown people do NOT read copy enclosed in boxes, and thus "set aside" from the rest. In any case, he felt the origin background should be worked into the story via casual comments in conversation between the characters, or captions. (Of course, it's been shown that many readers don't bother with the captions, either! One of the reasons I stopped using them all the time.)
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 16 July 2016 at 7:38am | IP Logged | 3
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One of the biggest problems with DC's reboots was that they were not even internally self-consistent.
Was there a Superboy? Did he belong to the Legion of Super-Heroes? Where did Wonder Girl come from? Which Hawkman was real? Or could there be two Hawkmen? Two Atoms, Flashes, Green Lanterns? Was Power Girl really Supergirl? How did they appear together? (One issue of Superman/Batman had FOUR DIFFERENT SUPERGIRLS in it, and Power Girl added for good measure.) Did Batman know who killed his parents? Why was everyone all worked up about Superman? There had been a plethora of super heroes years before he showed up, and he brought nothing original to the party.
When one writer refers to Supergirl, and another says that there was never a Supergirl, there's no way for the readers to understand what they're reading.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 16 July 2016 at 7:52am | IP Logged | 4
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When one writer refers to Supergirl, and another says that there was never a Supergirl, there's no way for the readers to understand what they're reading.•• Consider how it was for me, "rebooting" Superman without Superboy or Supergirl, while at the same time other stories were being done (one drawn by the Editor in Chief who had hired me!) featuring those characters!!
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16 July 2016 at 7:57am | IP Logged | 5
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Mr. Byrne, I can feel that vein in your temple still throbbing thirty years later. Sometimes, I wonder how Superman would have been if they had actually kept the promise they made you and let you be the only one to handle Superman's direction.
Or for that matter, stayed honest to restarting the DCU after Crisis. You have my sympathies.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 16 July 2016 at 8:22am | IP Logged | 6
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Or for that matter, stayed honest to restarting the DCU after Crisis.•• As I have said before, I knew CRISIS was dead in the water when Dick Giordano told me it would "get rid of all the alternate universes -- except the one with Captain Carrot." Yes, torpedo the whole house cleaning for the sake of a book eight people were reading. This is an inherent problem with universe building, of course. The more it's done the more fans want it done. Everything has to be interconnected. So we get Superman in the first issue of CAPTAIN CARROT to make it a "parallel universe," instead of just saying "It's a funny animal book." That latter could as easily have been accomplished with a Superman appearance by showing Clark Kent reading the first issue on the last page. But, no.... Another big problem is that so few seemed willing to commit to the "reboot," especially the parts they were not handling themselves. Hence the Superboy and Supergirl debacles. And nobody at DC seemed armed with the deathray needed to make everything stick.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 16 July 2016 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | 7
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I doubt this informed Shooter's decision, but studies have shown people do NOT read copy enclosed in boxes, and thus "set aside" from the rest.
***
Wonder if there's been any studies pertaining to word balloons on covers. I miss those!
On the subject of company-wide events, and my perception is only semi-serious here, it feels like DC has just been having big reboot events since about 2008.
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2366
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| Posted: 16 July 2016 at 2:30pm | IP Logged | 8
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When I was 8, I didn't read the "copy enclosed in boxes." After that, I had no problem.
Catching up on all the Masterworks, Stan Lee's captions were half the fun!
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Matthew Wilkie
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 March 2011
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| Posted: 17 July 2016 at 3:08am | IP Logged | 9
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Having had several storylines decimated by forced inclusion in "events" you can well imagine I am no fan.
***
Does that include your last issue of AF, JB?
How were you going to conclude the storyline before you had to have the Beyonder show up and rescue Talisman?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 17 July 2016 at 8:06am | IP Logged | 10
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Having had several storylines decimated by forced inclusion in "events" you can well imagine I am no fan.+++ Does that include your last issue of AF, JB? How were you going to conclude the storyline before you had to have the Beyonder show up and rescue Talisman? •• I'm remembering that as being the one time I was able to use the Beyonder to my advantage!
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Matthew Wilkie
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 17 July 2016 at 3:20pm | IP Logged | 11
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I'm remembering that as being the one time I was able to use the Beyonder to my advantage!
***
Ha! Fair enough.
For me, whenever I read your AF run, the Beyonder's appearance frustrates me. The story is ticking along very nicely and then, hey, the story is resolved from the leftfield.
Crucially though, I never felt the need to buy the corresponding SW2 issue. Now, I suspect missing out tie-in issues is simply not an issue if you want to know what the hell is going on. (I recently read the Avengers vs. X-Men TPB. It only collected the main run, but with none of the tie-in issues made absolutely no sense.)
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Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11296
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| Posted: 18 July 2016 at 12:37am | IP Logged | 12
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Matthew,i`ve read a few `Event` Trades,i think i`m a reasonably intelligent person,most of them were confusing and made no sense! I am unsure if reading the tie-ins would have made much difference!
Edited by Bill Collins on 18 July 2016 at 12:37am
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