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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 26 June 2016 at 8:48am | IP Logged | 1
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The big draw of those early Marvel comics was in large part that the characters were not the demigods that inhabited DC. As fans, we loved Superman and Green Lantern and Wonder Woman and all those characters who had trained their whole lives, or experienced some bizarre accident to which they adapted very well, or, at the top of the pyramid, been born on other planets.But Marvel characters we, to use a modern phrase, more "street level." Some of them were brilliant and well trained -- tho that training rarely set them up for being superheroes. And most of the folk were, well, folk. Ordinary people who, to borrow from the Bard, had greatness thrust upon them. Jules Feiffer, in THE GREAT COMIC BOOK HEROES, speculated that Batman was more popular than Superman because there was a chance we could BE Batman. Right out of the gate we had no hope of ever being Superman. That was the case with almost ALL of Marvel's characters. (Even Thor. After all, we might have found that hammer…)* And so with Quicksilver. Fast. On "Marvel Earth" very fast. Be comprehensible. A quality to be found in very few DC characters. ________________________ * This was in the days before Stan and Jack made what I consider a mistake: establishing that Don Blake was not a real person, but a construct created by Odin. A step away from the Everyman model of early Marvel.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12702
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| Posted: 26 June 2016 at 9:34am | IP Logged | 2
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As a kid, although I was more into Marvel, I still appreciated DC. Their characters were more super-heroes, while Marvel's were more super-heroes. I was really just happy to be able to have two different companies that gave me two different experiences... as long as they remained different. Nice for Superman to lift up an entire building, but not the Thing. I loved that Marvel -- in the Lee-Kirby era, at least -- considered Cyclops one of its most powerful characters, and to illustrate that we were given him blasting back a charging bull elephant. No mean feat, ya know?! But not beyond our ken.
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Shane Matlock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 August 2012
Location: United States
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| Posted: 26 June 2016 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | 3
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Despite JB's insistence that he only has a limited number of running poses, I would have loved to see an issue of the Flash drawn by him.
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
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| Posted: 26 June 2016 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | 4
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But should it look like that? Comic book superspeed implies the ability
to think and perceive things at an accelerated rate, otherwise the
speedster is going to be constantly crashing into things.
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And that's the million dollar question. How should a faithful adaption of Quicksilver's original speed powers be depicted in a live action movie/TV series? How should it look from Quicksilver's point of view?
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
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| Posted: 26 June 2016 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | 5
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Note that in that scene that things like the blasts coming from Ultron
and Iron Man, as well as Thor's hammer, are still moving relative to
Quicksilver's speed. It wasn't the ridiculous lightspeed levels that
Quicksilver was moving at in X-MEN: DAYS OF FUTURE PAST.
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I know, hence why I only singled out that one scene with Cap and his shield being frozen in time. It's also why I said that the Avengers 2 version of Quicksilver was more faithful to Quicksilver's original speed powers, than the current comic book version of the character and the version from the X-Men movies.
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17698
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| Posted: 26 June 2016 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | 6
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This was in the days before Stan and Jack made what I consider a mistake:
establishing that Don Blake was not a real person, but a construct created by
Odin.
—
Agreed. I also liked the 60-second time limit attached to Thor's hammer.
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Shane Matlock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 August 2012
Location: United States
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| Posted: 26 June 2016 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 7
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The 60 second limit on Thor's hammer gave him a weakness. Otherwise he was too powerful for most of the villains he fought. Just like Superman has his weaknesses in magic and Kryptonite, Thor needed a weakness or he was just too powerful to ever suspend your disbelief that he could be defeated. And I agree with JB that it was a mistake to make Don Blake a construct rather than an actual alter ego and the fact he needed a cane to walk because he was crippled further humanized him. Similar to Iron Man's heart problem and the nerve damage Doctor Strange suffered that ended his medical career. It all plays into that every man aspect that JB was talking about and it worked to make Marvel's characters seem more human than DC's.
Edited by Shane Matlock on 26 June 2016 at 3:12pm
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Wallace Sellars
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| Posted: 26 June 2016 at 5:43pm | IP Logged | 8
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Similar to Iron Man's heart problem and the nerve damage Doctor Strange
suffered that ended his medical career.
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Just so. I don't care for big reboots like DC Rebirth, but if Marvel opted to do
something like that, returning those three characters (and others) to their
humbler beginnings (or close to them) would be the right way to go.
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Dale Lerette
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 March 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 26 June 2016 at 6:21pm | IP Logged | 9
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I think this happens with most heroes that have some kind of super human ability. At first the power appears mysterious and fantastic. Just experiencing it is enough of a rush. But as the hero continues the suspension of disbelief gets stretched. Either the hero gain more powers or they pretty much stay the same. I think the general tendency is to wonder and then start to measure. We ask ourselves who would win -- Hulk vs Thor? Then we stat to inadvertently quantifying the strength levels of each. This leads to real and tangible world limits -- 90 tons vs. 100 tons etc. I remember as a kid being excited reading Marvel Universe. We no longer had to guess at what the heroes could do. But in hindsight as an adult now I think this might have been a bad thing for Marvel. They kind of took away the mystery from the readers. And I think Marvel was thinking too hard about defining what their heroes could do (in scientific terms) instead of just letting the stories write themselves (according to how the heroes would normally act).
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
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| Posted: 26 June 2016 at 7:17pm | IP Logged | 10
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The big draw of those early Marvel comics was in large part that the characters were not the demigods that inhabited DC. As fans, we loved Superman and Green Lantern and Wonder Woman and all those characters who had trained their whole lives, or experienced some bizarre accident to which they adapted very well, or, at the top of the pyramid, been born on other planets.
But Marvel characters we, to use a modern phrase, more "street level." Some of them were brilliant and well trained -- tho that training rarely set them up for being superheroes. And most of the folk were, well, folk. Ordinary people who, to borrow from the Bard, had greatness thrust upon them.
Jules Feiffer, in THE GREAT COMIC BOOK HEROES, speculated that Batman was more popular than Superman because there was a chance we could BE Batman. Right out of the gate we had no hope of ever being Superman. That was the case with almost ALL of Marvel's characters. (Even Thor. After all, we might have found that hammer…)*
And so with Quicksilver. Fast. On "Marvel Earth" very fast. Be comprehensible. A quality to be found in very few DC characters.
__________________
The over powering of Marvel characters (which has become worse over the last 15 years) is one of the reasons why I'm not reading that many Marvel books these days. The current batch of Marvel creators and editors have basically turned the Marvel characters into JLA and Legion of superheroes knockoffs in regards to over powering them and in regards to the huge scale they operate on. And don't get me started on the numerous over powered Superman knockoffs that they have running around the MU.
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Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 26 June 2016 at 9:27pm | IP Logged | 11
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Eric Jansen wrote:
| ]Not to mention his Superman knocks up a girl and then leaves town for five years. |
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To be fair, it's not like he knew she was "knocked up" when he left. I doubt Superman is in the habit of scaning Lois with his X-Ray and microscopic vision after they have sex.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 27 June 2016 at 5:44am | IP Logged | 12
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Despite JB's insistence that he only has a limited number of running poses, I would have loved to see an issue of the Flash drawn by him. •• Several generations of the Flash appeared in GENERATIONS.
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Topic Closed)
