| Author |
|
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132673
|
| Posted: 03 May 2016 at 10:55am | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
I read an article yesterday,where Alan Moore said he thought The Killing Joke was a bad story,and he wishes he hadn`t written it.•• We all have a pocketful of those! Fortunately, most of them, unlike KILLING JOKE, don't impact on the characters forever!!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
|
| Posted: 03 May 2016 at 11:04am | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
David, Golden Age comics and the Pulps that preceded them were rife with scenes of women being tied up, tortured, threatened with branding irons, and the like. Marston's preoccupations may strike you as creepy, but he at least admired the people he clapped in irons, allowing them to free themselves, absent the tears, fearful pleadings, suffering, or rescue from heroic men the other features of the time so heavily relied upon. Again, those who only see weird sexuality in the bondage comics of Marston are looking at them through the wrong end of time's telescope.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
|
| Posted: 03 May 2016 at 11:13am | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
Killing Joke features a Batmobile not seen since the 1950's and a moment when Batman holds a photo featuring Batwoman, Bat-Girl, Bat-Mite, and Ace, the Bat-Hound, none of whom were considered to be "in continuity" at the time that it was printed. The story was seemingly designed to act as a one-off or an Elseworlds despite its originally being scheduled as a Annual.
In the same sense that it wasn't Doom Patrol #121 that killed the team, but rather Showcase #94 that confirmed their deaths, it wasn't so much the Killing Joke that permanently crippled Barbara Gordon and gave everyone a "definitive" origin for the Joker, but rather Oracle's debut in Suicide Squad that told the world, "Yup. All that really happened!"
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3037
|
| Posted: 03 May 2016 at 2:04pm | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
Brian: I'm aware of the pervasive exploitation contents and headlight covers and stuff, but still as far as I know, Marston was the only person avowedly promoting alternative sexuality to a young audience. Everyone else were just sleazes doing a job for a buck.
Of course there is and was nothing wrong with Marston's fetishes and his household of three (nor with publishing sleazy exploitation). Yet I disagree I'm imposing a modern sensibility by finding his stated agenda disturbing and weird. I'd say the same thing if Ditko claimed Spider-Man was his way of tricking teenagers into embracing the beautiful logic of Objectivism.
I read a review once of an All-Star Comics reprint which speculated (based solely on reading the content) a shift in tone after the first few issues was a result of All-American higher-ups finally getting around to reading the cheap comics they were publishing for children, being appropriately horrified, and cracking down. |
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4566
|
| Posted: 03 May 2016 at 2:57pm | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
QUOTE:
| "Wonder Woman satisfies the subconscious, elaborately disguised desire of males to be mastered by a woman who loves them." |
|
|
Fair enough. Marston said there was an erotic subtext to his stories. I stand corrected. However, I wonder how many children reading the stories at the time perceived it? I certainly didn't when I read those stories as a child. Even as a pubescent adolescent I didn't perceive anything sexual about them, I guess because to my brain there was zero connection between sex and chains/being tied up. And certainly, Wonder Woman was never drawn sexily by HG Peter... compared to many of the "headlight comics" of his era (like Phantom Lady by Baker), his work is positively chaste. Is there anyone here who can say they read those stories as a pre-pubescent and perceived something sexual about them? I'm curious.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 03 May 2016 at 3:00pm
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14831
|
| Posted: 03 May 2016 at 3:13pm | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
Of course there is and was nothing wrong with Marston's fetishes and his
household of three
----
Reading that Marston basically told his wife that she had to accept Olive Byrne
into the household or he'd leave her kind of ran counter to his female
empowerment message. I can be supportive of polyamorous relationships, but
every person should have an equal say.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3037
|
| Posted: 03 May 2016 at 3:29pm | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
Correction: Of course in principal there is and was nothing wrong with Marston's fetishes and his household of three and would not be as long as all parties are adults and treated with equality and respect. In addition, prostitution should be legalized, regulated and taxed. Not that alternative sexuality has anything to do with sex work except insomuch as everyone deserves respect and equality in their personal life and under the law. #FeelTheBern
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3496
|
| Posted: 03 May 2016 at 4:27pm | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
On the original topic, this made me very happy when I saw it on Cartoon Network yesterday:
Toys aimed at girls that are action oriented, and not dolls or dress up kits ftw.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16469
|
| Posted: 03 May 2016 at 9:50pm | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
Regarding Alan Moore's feelings about "The Killing Joke":
LINK!
About William Moulton Marston, he was such an interesting person, I'd like to see a film made about the guy.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132673
|
| Posted: 04 May 2016 at 6:29am | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
Regarding Alan Moore's feelings about "The Killing Joke":LINK! •• sigh
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132673
|
| Posted: 04 May 2016 at 6:34am | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
About William Moulton Marston, he was such an interesting person, I'd like to see a film made about the guy.•• This made me realize I had no idea what the guy looked like. A quick google answered that question -- and also turned up the odd bit of info that the woman he lived with who was NOT his wife was named Olive Byrne!!!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14831
|
| Posted: 04 May 2016 at 7:43am | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
The thing that I recently learned was that Olive Byrne was the niece of
Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood. And that a pair of
bracelets she always wore was the inspiration for Wonder Woman's.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Topic Closed)
