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Topic: Too many Supermen (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Paul Gibney
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Joined: 17 April 2004
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Posted: 09 April 2016 at 6:05pm | IP Logged | 1  

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Stephen Churay
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Posted: 09 April 2016 at 8:12pm | IP Logged | 2  

Yeah the Pre52 Superman's Post 52 outfit (I can't believe I
live in a world where that is coherent ) leaves something
to be desired. I would like to know, who put forth the "no
trunks" mandate, which DC actually has. This person should
be removed from the medium of comics, for life.
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 09 April 2016 at 9:34pm | IP Logged | 3  

We just came off of a massive Spider-Verse crossover with hundreds if not thousands of Spider-Man iterations involved. There are so many Hulks a cartoon series featuring them as a team was made. The current Hulk is Amadeus Cho. Anyone who puts on a Stark suit of armor is an Iron Man and the number of Captain Americas continues to grow. There are X-Men from multiple timelines running around meeting their own counterparts all the time in the books now and many temporally displaced parallel-timeliners have been around now for decades. Decades.

Can we stop imagining this is a DC problem?

The idea of an older version of Superman, married with a nine-year old kid, meeting the current (possibly soon-to-be deceased) version is not that big a stretch in an industry where there are currently, what? five or more Spider-Man variant titles; one the alternate universe of his dead girlfriend, another the hither-unto-unheard of second victim of the radioactive spider's bite, another the once-an-alternate-earth-replacement-now-relocated-to-this-Ea rth version. Spider-Man 2099 was a big deal again recently in the Spider-Verse as well. Spider-Ham was an ongoing character once again. The cartoon pig version of Spider-Man... was a regular supporting cast member again. Once again, for those just tuning in: Cartoon Pig Spider-Man; an ongoing thing recently.The Spider-Men at Marvel are now crawling the walls because there's no place for them to sit down.

The idea of a New Superman who is Chinese is not one iota more confusing or mind-boggling than a New Spider-Man who is Black. it's not that difficult to grok at all... But it's DC, so we have to all pretend it's impossible for us to understand. 'Cause that's the spin and therefore the story.

The Story of DC the media and the little media parrots must tell, the only one they can tell, the only one imaginable to them, is "Another Crisis! Another Crisis! *Braw-w-wk!!* Can't figure it out!" The above linked story reports absolutely nothing like that in the offing, despite its own tedious squawking and invocations of "Another Crisis! Another Crisis!" One guy's dying. His counterpart's been hanging around in the background for almost ten years. And someone completely new is coming up to take over the name. None of that requires universe rebooting. Maybe the new Superwoman is from another Earth. Maybe she's their Lois Lane. Maybe. Me, I think she could be another Gwen. Can never have too many Gwens. Still, nothing is all that confusing about any of it, except, y'know, the Story of DC is "Confusing," so in headlines today: "Confusing!"

But I apologize. I'm interrupting your bored comic-hipster take on things here. You all have some very important eye-rolling and repeating yourselves to accomplish. Don't let me rain on your parade. "Marvel cool once. Sad now. DC bad. DC always bad. Head hurt. Don' get it..." Because we simply can NOT make these points often enough, even when they're not apparently relevant. 

Before I close, someone above called the Jurgens "Lois & Clark" version the "classic" one. It's not the original. It's not the Weisinger era one whose stories continued through to the mid-Eighties. It's not even JB's Man of Steel. Jurgens' version is the post-Zero Hour one whose continuity and origin kept getting stepped on time and time again throughout the early part of this century; arguably getting erased around the time of the New Krypton storyline to clear space for  the Superman whose title ended with the singularly unspectacular "Grounded" storyline. Unless you're a big Jurgens fan, there is nothing "classic" whatsoever about that version of the character.


Edited by Brian Hague on 09 April 2016 at 9:49pm
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Stephen Churay
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Posted: 10 April 2016 at 12:20am | IP Logged | 4  

The Pre52 Superman was still the honorable hero that
existed through the many versions that came before.
Basically looked the same. Basically acted the same. The
Nu52 version of the character, didn't really look like
Superman and was closer to the all muscle, no brains lug
that he is stereotyped to be. At times, he's been a bit of
a snot as well. It's a step in the right direction but
there definitely tripping while taking it.

Agreed, it's not just a DC problem. But odd that when given
the idea to right the ship, even if just a little bit,
they'd do everything possible to piss all over the
opportunity. After all, bringing this version of Superman
back is due to fans voting with there wallets
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Conrad Teves
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Posted: 10 April 2016 at 1:23am | IP Logged | 5  

Too many Supermen?

After going through just a few of these Multiverse versions of DC characters, I started getting angry.  After reading a bunch, I was properly cheesed-off.

What a mess.

Earth-11 looks like a very sexy(sexist?) coquettish mess, though.
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Doug Centers
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Posted: 10 April 2016 at 5:55am | IP Logged | 6  

Hahahaha!
That's hilarious Conrad......wait a minute are you saying that was not a parody ?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 April 2016 at 8:42am | IP Logged | 7  

The Pre52 Superman was still the honorable hero that existed through the many versions that came before. Basically looked the same. Basically acted the same. The Nu52 version of the character, didn't really look like Superman and was closer to the all muscle, no brains lug that he is stereotyped to be. At times, he's been a bit of a snot as well. It's a step in the right direction but there definitely tripping while taking it.

••

Frank Miller did more than redefine Batman with DKR. He gave some people the Superman they'd always wanted -- and it stuck.

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Stephen Robinson
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Posted: 10 April 2016 at 9:30am | IP Logged | 8  

Even a series that I thought got it right most of the time (Bruce Timm's
JUSTICE LEAGUE) demonstrated this problem in a scene where Batman
dodges Darkseid's *Omega Beams* (!). Superman points out that Batman
"never gives up as long as there's breath in his body" while Superman's
challenge is that the "world is like cardboard" so he's "always holding back."

Ugh.

Superman uses his vast strength wisely. But if the implication is that he's
"holding back" while Batman pushes the limits of human endurance and
basically gives "120%" then that feeds into the "Miller concept" of who
Superman is.
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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 10 April 2016 at 9:49am | IP Logged | 9  

I don't entirely agree, Stephen, if only because I took Superman's lines to be more like "I hold back because using all that I have would be devastating--and lethal." He is careful with the vast power at his command because he has to be.

Batman, on the other hand, pushes the limits of human possibility, and Superman (in JLU anyway) admires him for it.

I don't see that as a Millerism per se. Miller's Superman was defined by his knuckling under to the government and serving as Reagan's superweapon. He wasn't a killer, really, but the leash was off and he used his powers to serve the agenda of the powerful. He was neutered and had no personal agency--and THAT sells out Superman as much as making him a casual murderer.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 April 2016 at 10:42am | IP Logged | 10  

One of the odd things that has happened to Batman in recent decades is that he has become an anti-establishment figure. Anti-authority.

Now, it's true that when he left his vigilante beginnings behind, very early in his publishing history, he swung perhaps too far in the other direction. The Batsignal is an indicator of this: Batman as an unpaid consultant to the GPD, on call 24/7. This is the Batman who is a deputized officer of the law, the Batman who attends charity balls and library openings.

Cue Watergate, and America loses faith in its elected officials, it's authority figures. No coincidence that it is around this time that Batman moves back into the shadows, becomes again the creature of the night, the loner. Neal Adams helped nudge the character in this direction. He has said that he made a habit of setting scenes at night, unless otherwise specified in the script. But back then Neal's Batman was still a trusted figure in Gotham.

It wasn't until the balance tipped and the influx of fans-turned-pro brought their numbers higher than the Old Pros that we began to see profound changes in Batman's character. The fan mantra of "He'd have to be crazy to do what he does" became actual policy, and "The World's Greatest Detective" became "The Most Dangerous Man on Earth." Wolverine in bat-ears. (Yes, Marvel's unexpected breakout star was shaping how ALL the characters were portrayed.)

Writers and editors with soft, cushy, well-paid lives began to live vicariously thru Batman (and others) and "grim and gritty" took over. What we see now is the extreme arc of this particular pendulum.

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Robert Shepherd
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Posted: 10 April 2016 at 5:42pm | IP Logged | 11  

All I can say is I am SOOOO glad I don't buy comics anymore.

We are STILL suffering the repercussions from the 80s when a certain group of people thought they knew better than the entire history of comics. Even after proven failures, they still think they know better.

I don't even read comics and yet I'm tired of reading about company-wide mega events / reboots / retcons, etc.

I use this next phrase a lot in life. It's about evolution , not revolution. 
Great characters evolve over time. But modern writers can't wait that long so they must rip universes apart to make things the way THEY want them.

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Steven Ely
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Posted: 15 April 2016 at 12:09am | IP Logged | 12  

John Byrne leaving SUPERMAN and ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN in 1988 was my jumping OFF point of the SUPERMAN titles. I'd already jumped off ACTION COMICS when it became ACTION COMICS WEEKLY.

The last Superman book I got was SUPERMAN: SUNDAY PAGES 1943-1946 Jerry Siegel and Wayne Boring SUPERMAN newspaper comics strip reprints published by IDW.
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