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Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
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| Posted: 05 April 2016 at 8:28am | IP Logged | 1
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In one of my favorite bits from What If #34, the all-humor issue, Roger Stern got his chance to do that concept..!
I would show up for this comic every month!
(By the way, the "too" in the message saying the photo upload size is too large is misspelled.)
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 05 April 2016 at 12:26pm | IP Logged | 2
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Forget Batman and Richards, I want the FF to team up with the Doctor!
As for the main topic, I read two 1950s Batman tales years ago (reprinted in a UK comic). One was "The 1,001 Inventions of Batman". I loved the action in those strips, but equally compelling were the inventions and science.
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Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
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| Posted: 05 April 2016 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | 3
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Batman is a "master scientist," as established in the first account of his origin from 1940...
The problem with this in a modern context is that a shared universe gives us "scientists" like T.O. Morrow and Dr. Sivana, to say nothing of various mystics, magicians, and omni-dimensional beings who all operate using energies and disciplines that fall outside the boundaries of conventional science and yet are nevertheless demonstrably and reliably effective and real, bringing them back into the realm of science.
If any two-bit crackpot scientist can build a robot, then, playing the implications game, Batman, as a master scientist, must be able to build robots at least as well, which in the 1950's, he did. Hey, Superman can build robots, so Batman can build robots. Building them one-by-one is hackneyed and old-fashioned in this millennial age, so of course Batman can now build entire armies of OMAC's via cloning technologies and enhanced weapons engineering.
If we say some other guy can do something, then, by implication, Batman must be able to either do the same or have some understanding of how it was done, whether that other guy did it in a Superman, Wonder Woman, Plastic Man, or Captain Marvel comic, because it's all the same world now. Which makes Batman's world a very different one than the one he was created to exist in, and the Batman a very different character than the one he was created to be.
Building teleporters and massively destructive clone armies? All is a day's work for a master scientist operating in the DCU today...
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7526
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| Posted: 06 April 2016 at 8:53am | IP Logged | 4
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Sherlock Holmes is the prototype of all this, being one of the first highly popular literary detectives to be seen learning all he can of forensic science (which was science fiction stuff to most readers back then). Holmes notably contributed to the field greatly himself, being the author of several "monographs" (articles or self-published works?)...all of them related to forensic science.
At the same time, Holmes disdained learning *anything* that was not useful to his one pursuit. (He told Watson at their first meeting that he would try to forget that the Earth orbits the sun, as it's irrelevant to the subject of crime.)
Unfortunately, now that Batman is "the most dangerous man alive," he has to be an expert in the most esoteric branches of knowledge ever created. He's not just a master detective; he's got to be a super-scientist too.
Edited by Andrew Bitner on 06 April 2016 at 8:56am
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4620
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| Posted: 06 April 2016 at 9:39pm | IP Logged | 5
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Mike Norris wrote:
| Batman's skills should revolve around solving crimes. Forensics and deductive reasoning. |
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Exactly. And in pre-Crisis continuity, it basically did. Batman's pre-Crisis scientific expertise was almost always directly related to forensic science and chemistry. He was occasionally shown to have a smattering of medical knowledge (ie, devising a formula to cure Man-Bat). But he most definitely was not a Reed Richards-style scientist who could build a robot or a teleportation device. That's part of the a post-Crisis conceit of turning Batman into Iron Man. I sure miss the days when he had limitations; when he could be overpowered by three or four thugs who got the jump on him. A much more interesting character.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35940
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| Posted: 06 April 2016 at 11:16pm | IP Logged | 6
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I haven't read recent mainstream comics, but it's the problem I can see with how Peter Parker has been handled of late. The brain of a genius. The superhuman skills many can only dream of having. That's consistent with his portrayal. But now he's the head of a huge company? He's got money and fame? With that, one can presume that he's got all the attendant benefits that kind of wealth and power normally comes with; any woman he wants, bills always paid, his aunt well taken care of and nary an ordinary care in the world. In other words...Tony Stark.
I'm not sure when it was in vogue to strip characters of the things that made them interesting. Superpowers have been part and parcel of being a superhero since Superman came on the scene. It was only with Marvel that our heroes had some sort of weakness or blindspot...which is what made them interesting and relatable. Spider-Man had all the power, but Peter Parker was still bullied at school. The X-Men lived in a rich mansion but couldn't go outside it's boundaries without feeling like outcasts. The Thing had the biggest heart of any hero in the MU, but he looked like a monster. Steve Rodgers was a man out of time adjusting to the realities of a world decades ahead of him. It feels like most of that has been wiped away over the last decade or more and replaced with characters that feel like Xeroxes of those I grew up on. Phantoms who share a name but have hardly any of the attributes that drew me to them in the first place.
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Joseph Greathouse
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 August 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 591
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| Posted: 07 April 2016 at 2:10am | IP Logged | 7
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"With that, one can presume that he's got all the attendant benefits that kind of wealth and power normally comes with; any woman he wants, bills always paid, his aunt well taken care of and nary an ordinary care in the world. In other words...Tony Stark."
I have been reading of late (and enjoying, I admit). In the latest iron Man, Tony is talking to mary Jane and the subject of Peter Parker. Tony mentions a "competitive dislike", for lack of a better word, because Peter is just being like Tony, but doing it better.
I do agree with your point that the characters have been stripped of certain things at times. But I might have to disagree that what has been stripped are the tings that made them interesting (in a general, all-audiences sense.) What I have noticed in the Marvel books I have been reading of late, there has been a definite change to make the heroes more heroic. Certain vulnerabilities have been altered and replaced by others. Would you see the same characters you left behind, of course not. Does that make them less enjoyable, I don't believe that is necessarily the case either. I had given up on many of the books for a long time. But, in revisiting these days, I have found many of them to be fun.
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 07 April 2016 at 11:49am | IP Logged | 8
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I remember my wife seeing a trailer for BATMAN v SUPERMAN and
being puzzled by the armored Batman. "Isn't that Iron Man?" Out of the
mouths of civilians,
Tony Stark is the billionaire inventor who was able to use his genius to
create a suit of arnor that puts him in the same weight class as Thor or
Namor. He can fight the Hulk. That shouldn't be Batman. The guy who
is struggling with the very human Bane shouldn't be dodging heat
beams from Doomsday and being a laugable third wheel with
Superman and Wonder Woman.
Iron Man was meant to be in the same world as Thor, Namor, and the
other Avengers. Batman really isn't meant to be in the same world as
Superman, Wonder Woman, and the Justice League.
What's tricky is that Batman shouldn't be in a drab, everyday world like
the Nolan films. That fits Daredevil but Batman, who has a colorful
rogues gallery, should live in a more vibrant world.
It's a tough balance and unfortunately one that the films have not
captured.
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Topic Closed)
