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Paul Greer
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004
Posts: 14191
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| Posted: 23 March 2016 at 3:31pm | IP Logged | 1
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Once again you are being obtuse, Robert. No one is saying you have to
like JRJr. However, this thread is called PRAISE for JRJr. We are not
looking for your pissing contest in a thread about the admiration people
have for his work.
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Francesco Consoli
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 August 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 909
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| Posted: 23 March 2016 at 5:23pm | IP Logged | 2
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Paul, great sketch! Would love to see some of the others.
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Joe Hollon
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13699
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| Posted: 23 March 2016 at 6:33pm | IP Logged | 3
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Romita Jr is a pro's pro. I think he draws Spider-Man supporting characters and particularly villains extremely well. I got to watch some of that sketch marathon streaming live off the Internet and Paul was nice enough to pick up a sketch on my behalf.
Hobgoblin:
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31185
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| Posted: 23 March 2016 at 7:59pm | IP Logged | 4
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Anyone that says Jr is a bad storyteller and doesn't know anatomy has no idea how either of them work and needs to stick with looking at coloring books.
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Brian Floyd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 8594
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| Posted: 23 March 2016 at 9:48pm | IP Logged | 5
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Anyone saying he's a bad storyteller and doesn't know anatomy has him confused with Rob Liefeld....
*edit* And I've added Robert to my ignore list, as well.
Edited by Brian Floyd on 23 March 2016 at 9:50pm
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Robert Ingrao
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 284
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| Posted: 23 March 2016 at 10:20pm | IP Logged | 6
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I'm sorry, but I cant keep quiet. After perusing this entire thread, i can plainly see i am not the only one that states JR Jr's art is not for me. My first post was far from 'dickish' and my comments on the art i posted weren't meant as an insult but as a description of what i see (yes, i think that nose looks like a penis. i should've said 'penis' not dick.) I also see someone else getting insulted because they aren't in agreement with the trend/title of the thread, which i think is rude. More rude than anything i said: my mere opinion on art which is subjective. I have never known it to be stated anywhere on this forum that the rule is to follow the direction or opinions of a thread or just don't comment (i DO know thread drift is discouraged). I do not see the point of any discussion where opposing views are not allowed. If its 'bad form' to go against the grain, that's news to me. If anyone on here ignores me, i don't care, i would only care if JB ignored me as he's why im here. If he chooses to ignore me that's fine too, it's his forum.I politely and concisely stated an opinion and gave reasoning behind it. i didn't insult the artist personally and i didn't really even insult the art. At least not with what a NY'er would consider a real insult (saying something sucks isnt an insult to me). Everyone can get all over my shit 'cause i bucked the thread trend, but i'm not going to be counter-insulted because i did. Nothing i said is so bad...had i realized it was considered bad form i might not have bothered. But i can't wimp out and back down. We're all clearly very into comics, and this is not a new debate in a comic shop. "i like this guy"/"i hate that guy". Its almost as old as comics themselves...
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Robert Ingrao
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 284
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| Posted: 23 March 2016 at 10:30pm | IP Logged | 7
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Edited by Robert Ingrao on 23 March 2016 at 10:31pm
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Robert Ingrao
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 284
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| Posted: 23 March 2016 at 10:39pm | IP Logged | 8
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sorry for the empty post above...was trying to upload
here is the last thing i drew...go ahead, rip it up. my only excuse is that its my first art since at least 5 yrs... i do not consider this art to be 'finished' but since i've been called out twice now, ill post what i have. i was hoping for a week to do something up.
i will definitely redraw something JR Jr did from this thread (prob green lantern) and post it.
Edited by Robert Ingrao on 23 March 2016 at 10:41pm
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Philippe Cordier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 September 2006
Location: France
Posts: 175
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| Posted: 24 March 2016 at 2:33am | IP Logged | 9
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"i think its widely accepted he's average at best
i think if he came on the scene right now, he might not get work
DD:MWF sucked.
he's not one of the greats, plain and simple.
..."
Is that what you meant when you said "I politely and concisely stated an opinion and gave reasoning behind it" Robert?
As a big fan of John Jr I like ( a lot) to talk about what one likes and one doesn't about his art. Some of my friends are french comics artists and they are not all fans of his, but they can tell what they like, or not. Not one of them ever said the stupid things you said. "I can draw better than him", Seriously, who would said that (over 14 years old I mean)
Debate is interesting; You do not seem to be there for debate
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Paul Greer
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004
Posts: 14191
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| Posted: 24 March 2016 at 6:24am | IP Logged | 10
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Robert is not here for a debate. He is here because internally it hurts
him to hold his low opinion of JRJr inside. "I can't keep quiet" he cries.
The injustice is just too great. In one post he proves why he is not a
published artist and JRJr is. Not because there is anything wrong with
the art he posted but because the art he posted isn't even finished. He
didn't have time to finish it within one days time. One single figure and
he can't finish it in one whole day since claiming he was a better artist
than JRJr. Meanwhile JRJr can produce a full page of art a day (or
more). He hits deadlines and produces sequential artwork regularly for
30 plus years. That is what a professional artist does. The work. He
keeps his employers happy by producing what they ask for.
He doesn't sit around like a hipster who tears apart the medium and the
veterans of said medium. He shows respect for those who came before
him and the groundwork they laid for others to only dream of being
involved in the comic business.
Yes. It is bad form to come into a thread that specifically is called
PRAISE for JRJr and crap on his work. I have pointed that out to others
who have done so. If the thread was called WHAT DO YOU THINK OF
JRJr? then you would have a forum to spout your claims. But it isn't so
don't. How many times as a moderator do I have to mention it?
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12717
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| Posted: 24 March 2016 at 6:39am | IP Logged | 11
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There's a fundamental difference between offering politely that an artist isn't your cup of tea and deriding that same artist's patent talent. Someone might not personally appreciate how Michelangelo rendered female nudes, for example, but does that make Michelangelo a bad artist?
That Captain America picture from the prior page -- for me, for my taste, it doesn't resonate as the kind of Cap I most prefer. But I can set that completely aside and see that as a matter of skilled rendering, the shape, the form, the perspective, the personality in the face, the expression in the eyes and mouth, the LIFE in the drawing, it so obviously bespeaks of a major talent that what anyone could possibly deride is beyond me.
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Philippe Cordier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 September 2006
Location: France
Posts: 175
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| Posted: 24 March 2016 at 8:23am | IP Logged | 12
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I have to confess that what "irritate" me the most is the first sentence I quoted from Robert : i think its widely accepted he's average at best
John's been in this bussines for 40 years. Has he done pages that were "less good than other"? Of course. Are some of his books more likely to stand the test of time than others? Of course
But he's been in demand for 40 years, by none other than Frank Miller, Neil Gaiman, our Host and so many more; I read about more artists than I can recall, who spoke about the influence he had on their art...These are facts. Every body is intitled to their opinion, if it's an informed one and not so poorly worded
Robert doesn't like the way John draw hands? (something that I love about his art btw) Ok, I can deal with that. He 's the first to say that many artists are better draftmen than him. But saying he's average, and would not work today if he tried to break in the biz, that's just plain stupid (ask DC who recently find a way to have him come with them after 40 years at Marvel)
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