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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 02 March 2016 at 6:47am | IP Logged | 1
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I think "Rebirth" is trying to attract the short term long time readers. I mean the ones who started about ten years ago, and got the bottom pulled out by PU52. Now, DC wants 'em back, so it's "a brand new return to the books YOU started reading!"
It seems as if they're hunting wounded game with a bad slingshot, and their aim is off to begin with. But at this late date, DC (and Marvel) remain so committed that they cannot do anything - so they think. Starting truly from scratch would hurt the movies- OH MY GOD WE CAN'T HURT THE MOVIES!!! Or the TV shows!
There's no new audience to attract. There's no old audience (i.e., my age, 55) to get to return. I think that they feel their only option is to get back recent escapees.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 02 March 2016 at 6:51am | IP Logged | 2
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Yes, Jess, good points.
I haven't read the comic version of THE WALKING DEAD but am I correct in thinking the comic and TV versions are, within reason, allowed to follow their own paths?
Keep everything separate. Getting back to my Bond example, imagine the headaches if the publishers of the novels dictated the films couldn't do this and that - or vice versa. It'd be a mess.
As for Eric's points, I agree. Just tell good stories, standalone where possible. If Spider-Man marries someone in a film, don't feel obligated to copy the comic. If Captain America gets a new costume in a film, don't dictate to the comics that they must follow suit.
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Jess Sowerby
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 February 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 174
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| Posted: 02 March 2016 at 7:03am | IP Logged | 3
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The t.v show followed some of Walking Dead's major plot shocks here and there but i only watched 3 episodes of the t.v and gave up on the comic many years ago and sent my omnibus collections to a friend for free so anything i know is probably out of date.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 02 March 2016 at 7:16am | IP Logged | 4
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Sounds good. Should read it sometime.
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Jess Sowerby
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 February 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 174
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| Posted: 02 March 2016 at 7:21am | IP Logged | 5
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Is anyone so far convinced by DC repeatedly telling us (the readers,the fans) that this is not a reboot? I mean reboot,relaunch,the words to me are the same.A horse with a pretty bow in it's mane is still a horse.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 02 March 2016 at 7:23am | IP Logged | 6
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Perfect analogy, Jess. ;)
You are right. They'll probably add a new word beginning with "R" to the dictionary one day. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then IT IS a duck. This is a reboot.
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Phil Kreisel
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 February 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1911
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| Posted: 02 March 2016 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | 7
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Here are my thoughts with parallels between comics and other medium (TV, Movies).
With the Walking Dead TV show, Robert Kirkman himself has said that there may be similarities between the show and the comics, but there is, at the same time, a divergence. For example:
Andrea appeared in both the TV show and the comics. However, she's still alive in the comics and long deceased on the TV show. Aspects of her comic book arc were given to other TV walking dead characters. Darryl is in the TV show, but has never appeared in the comics (and Kirkman has stated that he has no intention of introducing Darryl in the comics).
I could go on and on. What makes the TV show interesting right now is the upcoming introduction of Negan into the show. In the comics, he was notorious for killing Glen. Fans of the show are wondering if TV Glen will meet the same fate as Comics Glen.
Given the divergence with other characters on the TV show vs the comics, I wouldn't count on it. All I would know for sure is that a Walking Dead character on the TV show will likely be killed by Negan... I just don't know who. This keeps things interesting and unpredictable for those who follow both the TV show and the comics (I only follow the TV show, and sporadically follow the comics).
************************************************************ ********** With DC, one of the main differences between the comics and the TV show Supergirl is that in the show, Jimmy Olsen is black. Changing his ethnicity in the comics would wipe out 75+ years of continuity.
Although Marvel did this switch in ethnicity with Nick Fury in the comics to match what was occurring in the films, it was quite a stretch (in the Comics, it's been established that black Nick Fury is white Nick Fury's son, and that both Nick Fury's are running around to some degree).
The bottom line? I wouldn't go overboard in paralleling comics with film/TV, but that's me.
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Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
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| Posted: 02 March 2016 at 8:58pm | IP Logged | 8
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Jess Sowerby wrote:
| Is anyone so far convinced by DC repeatedly telling us (the readers,the fans) that this is not a reboot? I mean reboot,relaunch,the words to me are the same.A horse with a pretty bow in it's mane is still a horse |
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I'll wait and see. Titles get relaunched all the time. Often with a new number ones and within the previous continuity. I've heard nothing about a reboot in connection to Rebirth. Both Flash: Rebirth and Green Lantern: Rebirth ( the alleged "inspirations" for this) took place in continuity.
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Matthew Wilkie
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 March 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1139
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| Posted: 03 March 2016 at 7:38am | IP Logged | 9
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With the Walking Dead TV show, Robert Kirkman himself has said that there may be similarities between the show and the comics, but there is, at the same time, a divergence.
* * *
Whilst I don't disagree, the second half the current TV season seems to be doing its darnedest to align itself to the comic book, albeit recasting some of the events to make it works (for Andrea in the comics, now read Michonne; for Holly, now read Sasha). It will be interesting if they see the current story line through with Glen.
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Olav Bakken
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Joined: 15 June 2014
Posts: 241
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| Posted: 03 March 2016 at 1:51pm | IP Logged | 10
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I really hope that the TV-series and planned movies have anything to do with the rebirth. When you adapt a comic into live action, sometimes there has to be some changes because we are talking about two different mediums. But the other way around, to transfer live action to comic form, is fully possible without the need to change anything. One can easily make a comic that feels like a live action episode or movie. The fact that this is possible, only proves that when comics are allowed to unfold and evolve in their own direction, they have something to offer that can not be replicated as live action. Ignoring this fact would be to betray the medium, and all the loyal readers who have kept the comics alive all these years, making it possible to make the shows and movies in the first place.
Imagine if Floyd Gottfredson and Carl Barks were told to make they comics look like the cartoons at the time. And remember the first Star Wars comics Marvel published some decades ago. The comics lived their own life, and luckily didn't feel like live action in comic book form at all. I once picket up a Dark Horse issue of Star Wars, and it felt like someone had turned live action into a comic. Perhaps I just didn't have luck with that specific issue, but I didn't like what they were doing. Again, I hope this is not the reason. Seems like every time the sales drops, instead of making an attempt to improve the titles, they just decide to turn their back on those who actually care about the comics and start it all over again, hoping to attract new readers.
A little off topic, but I wonder of that was what Jim Shooter had in mind during his time at Marvel. According to Doug Moench:
“He was making life miserable for everybody on Marvel, including Chris Claremont, who bit his tongue and held his peace for the sake of his beloved X-Men. You after to remember: Roy Thomas had already quit, Marv Wolfman had quit, Len Wein had quit, Gerry Conway had quit — I mean, the list went on and on and on and we haven’t even gotten to the artists.
“I think at that point, the two guys from that period who were left were me and Chris Claremont, and Chris came after me. This guy was so evil that he had all the assistant editors totally whipped. They were calling me and saying, “Doug, you gotta do something to stop this guy.” I said, “What am I going to do? I’m a freelancer. You’re the editors. Get together and go up to Stan (Lee) and say ‘Stan, you wouldn’t believe what this guy is trying to do.’” And what he was trying to do was what he called the Jim Shooter Theory of the Big Bang of the Marvel Universe. Now, what this was, he was going to kill off every major Marvel character, I swear this is true, but without killing them off.
“In other words, he was going to call off Steve Rogers, but not Captain America. And then a new guy, quote, like an investment banker, close quote, would be the new Captain America. He was going to kill off Peter Parker and someone else would be Spider-Man. I said, “This is lunacy. Stan Lee would never let this happen. This is insane.” But he was doing it! He got on the phone with me and said, “Look, this is happening and it’s starting with you.” I said, “What do you mean?” He said, “Next issue of ‘Master of Kung Fu,’ I want Shang-Chi dead, and when I mean dead, I want to see his blood. I want no way that Shang-Chi would ever be able to come back.” I said, “Now why would you do that? If you don’t like ‘Master of Kung Fu,’ kill the book, don’t kill the character, because these things have a way of changing over time and in five years you might want to revive the character of the book, etc.” “No, I don’t want to kill the book, I want to kill the character. Kill Shang-Chi and make a new master of kung-fu, like a ninja.” I said, “Mr. Shooter, perhaps you’re not aware. Ninjas are Japanese, kung-fu is Chinese.
“But anyway, he said, “If you don’t do, I’ll get someone that will. And ‘Moon Knight’ is next.” And I was writing ‘Thor” at the time. And then Don Blake goes and a new guy finds the hammer.” And after that phone call, I thought, well, it’s time to call Dick Giordano and have that lunch you keep wanting to take me to. Let’s have a burger. So I did. I called Dick Giordano. I don’t want to lose my babies – “Moon Knight” and “Weird World,” “Master of Kung Fu” – I was even enjoying “King Conan,” you know? But this guy is insane and I can’t stop him. All I can do is refuse. “Come on in, I’ll take you out for lunch.” So I went in and he said, “What do you want? What’s your favorite character?” Batman. “You got it! Want anything else?” And as much as I hated leaving Marvel after 10 years, I had no choice, and that’s the only reason I did it.”
Edited by Olav Bakken on 04 March 2016 at 3:38pm
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Topic Closed)
