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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133326
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| Posted: 29 December 2015 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | 1
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The idea I put forward for the ACTS OF VENGEANCE crossover, way back when, was to have the heroes swap villains (or vice versa). Of course, my old buddy Mark Gruenwald was driving the boat, so it couldn't be allowed to simply HAPPEN, in the natural course of events. It had to be something the villains were doing deliberately (That's a concept of which I am not at all fond. I really do not like the idea that the villains themselves see themselves "attached" to particular heroes. Sure, the Red Skull, to pick one, might have a particular grudge against Captain America, but I could not imagine that, confronted by the FF, he would even for a moment think "This is unusual. I normally fight Captain America!" The FF would just be one more bump in the road he saw himself as having to flatten.)
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 29 December 2015 at 2:04pm | IP Logged | 2
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I agree with that. ACTS OF VENGEANCE wasn't exactly what I expected. I do remember at the time, wishing for an X-Men/Octopus encounter (in the pre-internet age, it was easy to dream as you didn't know the next three months' worth of stories).
If I were Editor-In-Chief of DC or Marvel, or whatever the job title is called now, I think I'd have a "rule" that once ever 3-4 years, there'd be a month where "villain swapping" took place. No big storyline needed, nothing elaborate, simply an editorial decree that one month would feature fresh or relatively fresh encounters.
No elaborate storyline would be needed. I know, I'm never gonna be editor-in-chief and it's wrong for me to imagine without ever having stood in those shoes, but I'd not see the need for anything elaborate: just have Fantastic Four being around when Juggernaut goes on a rampage. Have Kraven decide he'd like to hunt the Thing. Have the Mandarin decide he wants his hands on Thor's hammer.
I could even see the idea working with villains vs villains (again, not saying any concept should be overdone). Perhaps have Doom going against Mandarin because, directly or indirectly, Mandarin's goals are affecting Doom's economic interests in Latveria. Or something like that. That doesn't have to be elaborate, either. The Lizard is probably the sort who'd lash out at anyone so if Electro happened to be in the Florida Everglades, well...
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17699
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| Posted: 29 December 2015 at 9:10pm | IP Logged | 3
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I would have liked to see Black Panther vs Doc Ock back when my Marvel
still existed.
Having the original X-Men take on the Mandarin would have been cool, too.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133326
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| Posted: 30 December 2015 at 9:01am | IP Logged | 4
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If I were Editor-In-Chief of DC or Marvel, or whatever the job title is called now, I think I'd have a "rule" that once ever 3-4 years, there'd be a month where "villain swapping" took place. No big storyline needed, nothing elaborate, simply an editorial decree that one month would feature fresh or relatively fresh encounters.•• Even "containing" it like that, you create restrictions. Within reason, "villain swapping" should be the kind of thing that goes on all the time. Not to the point that Doctor Doom appears in every title, every month, obviously, but to the extent that… Well, to the extent that we could avoid scenarios such as happened to Chris and me when we wanted to use Kraven the Hunter in MARVEL TEAM-UP, and were told by the writer/editor on AMAZING SPIDER-MAN that we could not, because he had a Kraven story planned for two years hence!! That was one of the times Shooter functioned as a force for Good, and stepped in to overrule the Spider-writer.
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7526
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| Posted: 30 December 2015 at 9:59am | IP Logged | 5
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It's pretty tough to imagine any early team of superheroes OR villains who could stomp on the X-Men when Professor X is added in. Putting the five teens themselves in the field *without* their mentor providing psychic cover, however, becomes a more interesting proposition.
In that case, I could see the original X-Men having a fight on their hands against the Sinister Six and maybe even getting beaten by the first Masters of Evil.
As a counter proposal, how would the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants fare against an early line up of Avengers? Was that done?
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 30 December 2015 at 11:47am | IP Logged | 6
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Even "containing" it like that, you create restrictions. Within reason, "villain swapping" should be the kind of thing that goes on all the time. Not to the point that Doctor Doom appears in every title, every month, obviously, but to the extent that… ***
Yeah, I guess I was trying not to over-egg the pudding. :)
But it makes sense. Law of averages would dictate, surely, that certain characters would cross paths, particularly in New York. Why wouldn't Iron Man, after leaving Avengers HQ, not come across Scorpion? Isn't there a chance Captain America might be the only one available during one of Vulture's crimes?
Someone I once mentioned this to said it'd be contrived. I don't think so. It'd be contrived if all the heroes lived in separate universes, but being mainly in New York helps. Not that being in the same city is needed. Might not Matt Murdock head down to Florida to conduct legal research, but then find himself, as Daredevil, beaten to a pulp by Lizard?
So many scenarios in my head...
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2366
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| Posted: 30 December 2015 at 6:05pm | IP Logged | 7
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As I recall, after the first chance meeting between a certain hero and a certain villain, the next meeting might be some sort of revenge plot...so it made sense for the same match-ups to occur without being random.
However, I also remember later match-ups between a hero and "his" villain that DID happen by accident! And that's just lazy writing.
Stan and Steve did a brilliant thing when they gave Spider-Man his Spider-Sense. We never really got a thorough explanation of how it worked, but it sure made it easy for Spidey to be drawn to a crime or a villain--maybe even it was "attuned" to villains he already fought!
But then there were also a LOT of stories (often in MARVEL TEAM-UP, as I recall) where Spider-Man would be hanging out reading a newspaper or whatever and a villain just happens to pass by! But, again, that's only coincidence if it's one of HIS villains! If New York City is full of heroes and villains, then, yes, a hero running into a random villain is bound to happen.
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Topic Closed)
