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Thomas Mets
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 898
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| Posted: 21 March 2005 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | 1
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Eric Kleefeld wrote:
| The great thing about DC is that continuity doesn't matter.
Writers aren't overly constrained by it and are free to do their real
job, telling fun stories that someone will like.
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This was true of Marvel until recently.
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Peter Svensson
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Joined: 30 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 1470
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| Posted: 21 March 2005 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 2
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Time Travel already appears to be involved in Seven Soldiers. So the odds are quite high that at the end of the story, the Cosmic Reset button will be pressed, and everything will return to Status Quo. I'm just amazed that Morrison is reusing the whole "Darkseid WINS" idea that he did in JLA. Well, it appears that he's doing another riff on it, but still.
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Brian Lockhart
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Joined: 24 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 386
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| Posted: 21 March 2005 at 1:13pm | IP Logged | 3
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Good point, Peter.
Also, I think it needs to be pointed out that we have no proof
that Morrison's ideas about the New Gods that see print will be
some complete revamping.
For the continuity-conscious, so far the two issues of Seven
Soldiers that have come out have given nods to continuity, and
left room for readers to fit them into continuity.
Ex.
In Seven Soldiers 0, Vigilante makes reference to his time in
the Wild West and his rescue by the Justice League.
Seven Soldiers 0 also clearly references the original Seven
Soldiers, so it's not as if Morrison just took the name and
completely forgot all about where it came from.
Shining Knight 1 has an appearance by Nebuloh, the villain
from Morrisons' recent JLA Classified arc.
And although I know little of the Knight's history, I know he's
been a time traveler. This is a "young Sir Justin" so there's no
reason at this point to believe that his current adventure could
not be taking place before those of the more mature Shining
Knight we all know and love.
And, from reviews that I've read of The Guardian 1 coming out
on Wednesday, Morrison does mention the previous character
and the Newsboy Legion.
My main point is that all we're going on for this thread are
Morrison's comments, and they're not very detailed. Give the
man a chance. Let the issues come out. Then, if you don't like
what he's done or how he's handled the New Gods, criticize-
away.
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Eric Kleefeld
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Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
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| Posted: 21 March 2005 at 1:17pm | IP Logged | 4
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I've noticed the Seven Soldiers Guardian is black. Is this Mal Duncan from
old-school Teen Titans? He wore a Guardian costume for a while.
Edited by Eric Kleefeld on 21 March 2005 at 1:17pm
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Wayne Osborne
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| Posted: 21 March 2005 at 1:51pm | IP Logged | 5
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Zaki Hasan wrote:
Wayne Osborne wrote:
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Not a valid answer at all. There was a little something at the top of Wein's book that read "the all-new, all-different....". Wanna try again?
WO
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Wasn't Morrison's book also called New X-Men?
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Please. Do I really have to explain the differences between Wein's X-men and Morrison's? You guys are going an awfully long way to avoid addressing my initial observation that Morrison did not leave the X-men at status quo when he left. And I didn't even mention Animal Man or Doom Patrol (both of which I enjoyed, btw - but you can't say the characters were the same at the end of his run). I'm still waiting for someone to explain how the X-men were the same when Grant left as they were before he started..........anyone?..........Bueller?........
WO
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Eric Kleefeld
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Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
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| Posted: 21 March 2005 at 1:54pm | IP Logged | 6
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Did anyone ever say the X-Men were the same at the end of Morrison's
run? Of course not. I was taking issue with your very
objection. If that rule does indeed exist for the X-Men then it's
been violated by almost every single writer to take them on. Why
single out Morrison?
I was, however, maintaining that he'd leave the New Gods in the same
condition as he found them, at least in this instance of Seven
Soldiers. He left Orion in the same condition at the end of JLA,
he tied up the loose ends on the Darkseid wins timeline at the end of
Rock of Ages, etc.
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Wayne Osborne
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| Posted: 21 March 2005 at 2:06pm | IP Logged | 7
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Eric Kleefeld wrote:
Did anyone ever say the X-Men were the same at the end of Morrison's run? Of course not. I was taking issue with your very objection. If that rule does indeed exist for the X-Men then it's been violated by almost every single writer to take them on. Why single out Morrison?
I was, however, maintaining that he'd leave the New Gods in the same condition as he found them, at least in this instance of Seven Soldiers. He left Orion in the same condition at the end of JLA, he tied up the loose ends on the Darkseid wins timeline at the end of Rock of Ages, etc.
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Morrison's changes ranged from cosmetic with the Beast and their uniforms to some pretty fundamental character changes concerning Scott and Magneto. I can't think of any other writer who made such drastic changes.
And I was responding to your assertion that the New Gods would be in the same condition when he was done by using X-men as an example of a book that wasn't left that way. Again, I can also use Animal Man and Doom Patrol. You've got JLA. That's 1 out of 4. So without either of us reading it, based on his past track record, I'd say the odds aren't in your favor.
WO
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Zaki Hasan
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Joined: 20 April 2004
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Posts: 8105
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| Posted: 21 March 2005 at 2:07pm | IP Logged | 8
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Wayne Osborne wrote:
Do I really have to explain the differences
between Wein's X-men and Morrison's? You guys are going an
awfully long way to avoid addressing my initial observation that
Morrison did not leave the X-men at status quo when he left. |
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Not really, I'm travelling a rather short distance to say that just
like Wein's X-Men was labelled "new," so too was Morrison's.
That's it. Could care less about the "status quo."
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Wayne Osborne
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| Posted: 21 March 2005 at 2:12pm | IP Logged | 9
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Zaki Hasan wrote:
Wayne Osborne wrote:
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Do I really have to explain the differences between Wein's X-men and Morrison's? You guys are going an awfully long way to avoid addressing my initial observation that Morrison did not leave the X-men at status quo when he left.
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Not really, I'm travelling a rather short distance to say that just like Wein's X-Men was labelled "new," so too was Morrison's. That's it. Could care less about the "status quo."
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Okay, if we're gonna pick nits - Wein's was a new book with new characters that maintained the old numbering. Morrison's book was already titled "New X-men" before he started his run using pre-existing, well-established characters.
And the expression is "couldn't care less".
WO
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Brian Miller
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Joined: 28 July 2004
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| Posted: 21 March 2005 at 2:19pm | IP Logged | 10
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Wayne, even though I agree with you on the whole Morrison thing ( did like JLA, tho) you are wrong. It was called "New X-Men" with his first issue. It was simply "X-Men" before that.
Edited by Brian Miller on 21 March 2005 at 2:22pm
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Zaki Hasan
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| Posted: 21 March 2005 at 2:21pm | IP Logged | 11
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Wayne Osborne wrote:
Okay, if we're gonna pick nits - Wein's was a
new book with new characters that maintained the old numbering.
Morrison's book was already titled "New X-men" before he started his
run using pre-existing, well-established characters. |
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The book became New X-Men only for the duration of Grant's run (and I
believe two issues after he left). After that it went back to the
adjective-less X-Men. The numbering stayed the same throughout.
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Wayne Osborne
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| Posted: 21 March 2005 at 2:22pm | IP Logged | 12
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Brian Miller wrote:
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Wayne, even though I agree with you on the whole Morrison thing ( did like JLA, tho) you are wrong. It was called "New X-Men" with his first issue. It was simply "X-Men" before that.
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I stand corrected then. My mistake. But to have been more accurate they probably should have called it the "disfunctional" X-men.
WO
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Topic Closed)
