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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4505
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 11:16am | IP Logged | 1
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Holy Cut and Paste, Batman! Why would you go to the actual source of the discussion when you can get it all chopped up and published on a different website? =/
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133339
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 11:17am | IP Logged | 2
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A few pages back, I mentioned how one thing that has gone wrong in the Biz is that the singers have become more important than the songs. Thus, we have a thread in which people are discussing what they think are bad moves being made by Marvel in respect to its characters. Ah, but two of this people are Comic Book Professionals, so THOSE guys must be FEUDING!The only thing sadder than this is the number of ill-informed fanboys who will eat it up, especially as it ripples out further and further from the source.
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 11:31am | IP Logged | 3
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When I think of superhero characters that are really successful across
media, it occurs to me that there usually are three factors that must
remain consistent.
SUPERMAN
Alter ego: Clark Kent
Profession: Journalist
Home Base: Metropolis
BATMAN
Alter ego: Bruce Wayne
Profession: Rich Guy
Home Base: Gotham City
SPIDER-MAN
Alter ego: Peter Parker
Profession: Student
Home Base: New York
This is usually called the "civilian" test. You can make illusory changes
to the characters, but once you start veering from these three traits,
confusion arises. There was a period where even a casual comics fan
might not be able to answer "Who is Green Lantern?" or "Who is the
Flash?" And I recall the sad period when Hal Jordan, once a test pilot,
sold insurance.
I liked the attempt to ground Captain America by giving him an
occupation (artist, which was a nice, unexpected touch) and a home
base (Brooklyn Heights).
Most cartoons and movies depict Spider-Man as a student. We
wouldn't expect to see Peter Parker turn up as a rival CEO to Tony
Stark -- a Zuckerburg type character. But that's what the comics will be
publishing when he appears on the big screen again.
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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 11:38am | IP Logged | 4
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Most cartoons and movies depict Spider-Man as a student. We
wouldn't expect to see Peter Parker turn up as a rival CEO to Tony
Stark -- a Zuckerburg type character. But that's what the comics will be
publishing when he appears on the big screen again.
+++++++
...where he will likely be a student.
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 5
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Yeah, Spider-Man has been a student in every TV and movie series
featuring him (at least one per decade). By the 1990s, he'd been out of
school and married for a while, yet you still didn't see that in the movies
and cartoons. Mostly because it's so off-model to only really work if you
have some investment already in the character. But JMS's Spider-
Totem, schoolteacher married Parker as the first film in a series? Good
luck.
It's also somewhat telling that aside from Venom, the Maguire and
Garfield movies didn't draw on any Spider-Man stories or concepts
since the 1970s. And it was the worst episodes, I think, of the 90s
cartoon that did (clone saga, "vampire" Vulture).
The Nolan Batman films, however, are very post-Miller. There's even
No Man's Land and Knightfall. We can argue about the merit of those
stories and the movies, but at least they are recognizably Batman
enough to be used.
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Lance Hill
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2005
Posts: 991
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 6
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QUOTE:
| Most cartoons and movies depict Spider-Man as a student. We wouldn't expect to see Peter Parker turn up as a rival CEO to Tony Stark -- a Zuckerburg type character. But that's what the comics will be publishing when he appears on the big screen again. |
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His cameo in the Captain America movie a year from now, or the solo movie two years from now?
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 12:16pm | IP Logged | 7
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Sorry. But any full story that takes that long to tell isn't, in my mind, a great one. To ward of anyone, I'm talking serial comic book fiction here not LORD OF THE RINGS. Doc Ock taking over Peter's brain should, at best, be a couple of issues.
Sales figures aside (the final issues of Amazing Spider-Man and the entire run of Superior Spider-Man sold better than any other Marvel book), why should there be a cap on a good story? The Phoenix saga in X-Men ran from issue 99 to 138, give or take. Elektra's story pretty much ran the length of Frank Miller's tenure on Daredevil, from 168 to 190. Jim Starlin's Warlock played out over a few years and several titles.
Saying that the Doc Ock story should have been capped at two issues is like saying that we got the point after She-Hulk replaced The Thing in the FF after a month. Sometimes you've got more story to tell than that. If sales are good and reader reaction is good, why wouldn't a writer let a story play out the way that he wants?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133339
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 12:55pm | IP Logged | 8
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Sales figures aside (the final issues of Amazing Spider-Man and the entire run of Superior Spider-Man sold better than any other Marvel book), why should there be a cap on a good story? The Phoenix saga in X-Men ran from issue 99 to 138, give or take. Elektra's story pretty much ran the length of Frank Miller's tenure on Daredevil, from 168 to 190. Jim Starlin's Warlock played out over a few years and several titles. ••• You're confusing subplots with stories. Subplots tell a story, usually building to a conclusion, and that can take several issues. But a story that, all on its own, fills several issues -- now we're ranging into lazy writing or exploitation. Or both. Phoenix should not be on that list at all, since I doubt anyone today would be thinking of it as a "story" unto itself if an entirely arbitrary "ending" had not been forced upon Chris and me.
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | 9
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I checked out a few of the Doc Ock/Spider-Man issues. I thought it was an interesting idea. It just took too damn long to get to the end. Had it been shorter I likely would have picked up the issues.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133339
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 1:08pm | IP Logged | 10
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In the first Fantastic Four story I read, the team encountered Doctor Doom, accompanied by a flashback to Reed's college days. Sue was kidnapped. Reed, Ben and Johnny were sent back in time to find "Blackbeard's treasure". They did. The Thing BECAME Blackbeard. A giant waterspout destroyed the ship they were on. They came back to the present, only to be imprisoned by Doom, who set about killing them slowly and painfully. Sue rescued them. Doom was defeated, but escaped. One issue. With the price of comics these days, isn't THAT what we should be giving the readers EVERY ISSUE?
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 1:13pm | IP Logged | 11
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In the first Fantastic Four story I read, the team encountered Doctor Doom, accompanied by a flashback to Reed's college days. Sue was kidnapped. Reed, Ben and Johnny were sent back in time to find "Blackbeard's treasure". They did. The Thing BECAME Blackbeard. A giant waterspout destroyed the ship they were on. They came back to the present, only to be imprisoned by Doom, who set about killing them slowly and painfully. Sue rescued them. Doom was defeated, but escaped.One issue. With the price of comics these days, isn't THAT what we should be giving the readers EVERY ISSUE? ~~~~~~~~ Hell yeah that's what we should be getting. JB, do you recall what the cover price was for that comic?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133339
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | 12
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12¢, if memory serves. 24 pages of story.
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Topic Closed)
