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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 2:55am | IP Logged | 1
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As an aside to this discussion, I think the Fleischer Superman animation could have shown us epic confrontations if that's what we were looking for at the time. Fleischer wasn't certainly wasn't limited by the medium looking at what he created, but gave the audience what it wanted which was basically Superman facing homegrown threats. I think he could have done epic things, but that just wasn't the norm given the context and the times.
In the end, I feel this is far off the mark of the discussion of this particular thread.
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Michael Roberts
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 2:59am | IP Logged | 2
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So...you're quoting yourself as a source? Seriously?
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Sigh. No. I was reminding you of what I said, because you think that the state of comics, radio, and TV in the 1950s was some sort of rebuttal. Even after I pointed out that SPIDER-MAN AND HIS AMAZING FRIENDS when I was a kid in the 80s was still a poor substitute for comics.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 3:07am | IP Logged | 3
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My 1950s rebuttal was only in response to you!
Michael Roberts wrote:
| What I'm saying is that the appeal of a Superman radio show got pushed to the niche when they gained the ability to do a Superman TV show. |
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I never would have dug back into the 50s had you not brought it up!
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Michael Roberts
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 3:10am | IP Logged | 4
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Yes, that was an analogy. :p
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Michael Roberts
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 3:24am | IP Logged | 5
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Anyway, I think this has gone too far off-topic, as I don't disagree that Marvel and DC need to shift content back to all-ages appeal. I just feel that as a medium for superhero fiction, the popularity of comic books has become limited, no matter the content. Others obviously disagree.
Edited by Michael Roberts on 03 July 2015 at 3:24am
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Pedro Bouça
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 3:30am | IP Logged | 6
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I should say on thing, Mr. Slott (who is a very talented writer and at the same level as the two best Spider-Man writers of the past, Stan and Stern) wrote "on-model" Spider-Man for years, YEARS!
But you see, it came after the "One More Day" mess and the readers at the time were complaining - and, yes, leaving the book, if the numbers available are correct - quite a lot, saying that it was too old-fashioned and retrograde. Their words, I loved the post-OMD run myself.
So the Superior Spider-Man stuff wasn't just a random thing. It was necessary. A vital shot in the arm for the character. And it worked! It was great, drove up sales, made people forget OMD and, this is the most important thing, ended with status quo pretty much restored. Isn't it the important thing? Doing an interesting, commercially sucessful story that doesn't violate the core character concepts? Mr. Slott did that! NO ONE ELSE at Marvel seems to be able to do so nowadays!
So, for me right now he is, for my money, the best writer currently working at Marvel. And I'm quite sure that he is able to do a real good story with those concepts and - something that he can't admit publicly for commercial reasons - put the toys back in the box when he is finished. He has proven that in the past and will do so again in the future, I'm sure.
And JB, you should give Mr. Slott the benefit of doubt. He comes from the same "school" of comics writing that you do, really. Try and get the Spider-Man/Human Torch mini he wrote years ago, it's a great read!
Edited by Pedro Bouça on 03 July 2015 at 3:33am
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 3:44am | IP Logged | 7
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Pedro Bouca wrote:
| So the Superior Spider-Man stuff wasn't just a random thing. It was necessary. A vital shot in the arm for the character. And it worked! It was great, drove up sales, made people forget OMD and, this is the most important thing, ended with status quo pretty much restored. Isn't it the important thing? Doing an interesting, commercially sucessful story that doesn't violate the core character concepts? Mr. Slott did that! NO ONE ELSE at Marvel seems to be able to do so nowadays! |
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Didn't this magnum opus last nearly three years? Certainly over two years, right?
Sorry. But any full story that takes that long to tell isn't, in my mind, a great one. To ward of anyone, I'm talking serial comic book fiction here not LORD OF THE RINGS. Doc Ock taking over Peter's brain should, at best, be a couple of issues. I can't, for the life of me, imagine how it took so long to get from A to B unless it was sold as such ("I can get 24 issues out of this...promise!") I guess what I get frustrated with is how friggin' long it takes to get to what I can already see is the inevitable conclusion. The Clone War was interminable and it only lasted two "real world" years. How can Octi-Spidey last at least as long.
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Michael Roberts
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 3:47am | IP Logged | 8
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Didn't this magnum opus last nearly three years? Certainly over two years, right?
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A little over a year and a half. It was a biweekly book.
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Matt Reed
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 3:49am | IP Logged | 9
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Ye gods!
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Conrad Teves
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 3:50am | IP Logged | 10
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Here's the audience problem in a nutshell:
Say you are a company that made these tools:
You've decided you want to market these to professional contractors. This requires an "upgrade" that will necessarily require abandoning your original customer demographic. Though you've gone through the trouble to up the materials to the finest steel and production quality to Festool levels from their plastic origins, you've decided to keep the original form factor for brand recognition. The hammer with the little doggie picture is iconic for crying out loud. They can't abandon that!
I hope it's clear how this analogy applies to American comics. I say "American" because the Japanese have filled out every corner of their market and address every available demographic down to the really weird ones. They are even conquering Europe.
Interesting quote from an 18 year old German girl in the linked article: "I could also read American comics, but I prefer the Japanese ones because they're less clumsy,"
American comics, the Big Two particularly, have their head stuck in a box shaped like the Marvel and DC Universes. I see these increasingly desperate attempts at "All New" as symptomatic of the creative side screaming to get out of the box, but they can't do it.
And they'll never do it as long as what they are required to make has to fit the Box.
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Michael Roberts
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 3:58am | IP Logged | 11
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Marvel Now was my final breaking point for Marvel, and along with DC's Nu52, it pushed me to stop buying comics altogether. I continued to follow THE SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN in trades, however, because it was fun and the kind of storytelling I enjoyed when I first got into comics. I even thought Peter's presence and mission was felt throughout the book, even when he wasn't in the book.
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Michael Roberts
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 4:05am | IP Logged | 12
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QUOTE:
| I say "American" because the Japanese have filled out every corner of their market and address every available demographic down to the really weird ones. They are even conquering Europe. |
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Note that article is from 2007.
Currently, Western manga sales have fallen, and print manga is losing out to digital and piracy.
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Topic Closed)
