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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 1:47am | IP Logged | 1
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Michael Roberts wrote:
| I do think they should shift their content to all-ages for the trade formats and digital, but all this "if we make it all-ages again, they will come" rhetoric is just Grandpa Simpsoning. |
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But that's not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing that they've given up on kids regardless of the medium. They could produce comics on paper, in the cloud, as a computer imprint, or through Vulcan mind meld. Doesn't matter. They've totally given up on all but three comics geared toward kids. That they don't even feature their most popular characters is, I think, incredibly sad.
So you misrepresent my argument by stating that if only Marvel would write all-ages books, the tide would be turned on print media in general. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that in whatever format Marvel chooses to publish, they've decided not to do it aimed at an all-ages market. You and others have said that entertainment opportunities make it a competitive field where comics must ultimately lose, which I say is bullshit because I had just as many options, certainly more than my father before me, and I still chose comics. Today is no different than the year the Atari was first introduced or when I could buy a multitude of what were then state-of-the-art handheld games while watching 50 channels on cable. And, mind you, that's a selective list. I had many other options I'm not mentioning because, quite frankly, too many of you wouldn't know what I'm talking about!
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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 1:49am | IP Logged | 2
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Spider-Man with two superpowered teammates who know his secret
identity and live with him in his apartment outfitted with all sorts of
gadgets provided by Tony Stark is as much of a change as some of the
other things people are complaining about in this thread.
+++++++++++
But Spider-Man himself was still the same guy. Same look, same
personality, same job, same basic life circumstances. He just had two
extra friends to help him out, and still lived at home, instead of in an
apartment.
I'm not saying SMAHAF was a perfect match to the comics, but it was
pretty darn close, aside from the Spider-Friends team concept. The
character himself was essentially unchanged.
Edited by Greg Kirkman on 03 July 2015 at 1:51am
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Rob Ocelot
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 December 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 1231
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 1:51am | IP Logged | 3
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Matt Reed wrote:
| I remember when I got my Atari 2600. I played with it for days and days. Loved that machine. Still own it as a matter of fact. But I also read comics at the same time. That's the truth behind the myth. I was ::shocker!!!:: able to do both. Play video games, watch cable, borrow VHS tapes, go outside to play with my action figures and read comics! None of the things before "read comics" pushed them out because I made time. Why? Marvel demanded that I read them! They either did that by being present on the shelves in the grocery store or by the articles I read in the comics themselves and, really, by just being compelling reads to an 8 year-old in 1975. They leapt out and grabbed you. I had tons of other things that could have certainly taken up my time (as if the 2000's is the only generation to have anything other than rocks and sticks for kids), but I chose comics as one of many options because they sold them to me. Now all they're selling are action figures and t-shirts without the underlying reason for loving them in the first place; the stories that grabbed you as a kid.
Sorry, but I think that's incredibly sad. |
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I too find this quite sad.
Just wait though, in a few years they will have some quite shocking MRI and fMRI data to show that parts of the brains of Millenials are underdeveloped or atrophied -- primarily from growing up with cell phones and computers used as a substitute for memory and decision making skills. Their lack of patience (wanting complete personal and financial success before they are 30) is already legendary. Scarier still, they are now the largest sector of the population as the Boomers die off, so all of the targeted advertising and project development will shift to them. True to form, their offspring will be even more derivative. These are the minds that are inheriting the planet.
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2366
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 1:57am | IP Logged | 4
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I think it should be pointed out that, besides SQUIRREL GIRL and those other couple of "kid-friendly" comics Marvel does put out, it also produces two magazines (a SPIDER-MAN one and a "Misc." MARVEL SUPER-HEROES one) that are aimed at kids.
The problem with those, however, is that the stories are random and the creative teams are unknowns and (often) more cartoonish. That makes these the modern equivalent of SPIDEY SUPER-STORIES, not the equivalent of SPIDER-MAN in the 60's or X-MEN in the 70's and 80's.
They're reaching out to the younger readers somewhat, but not giving them the best material. Why not do these with the same care that Stan Lee and John Romita did when they tried to do some Spidey magazines in the 60's? (Which sold!)
It's like they want to say "See? We tried kids comics, but they don't sell that well." Try doing GOOD kids comics and see what happens!
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 1:58am | IP Logged | 5
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Today is no different than the year the Atari was first introduced or when I could buy a multitude of what were then state-of-the-art handheld games while watching 50 channels on cable.
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Sorry, as you point out, I am younger than you, and I find the Millennials bizarre, so I don't understand how you think things are no different. When kids would prefer a $100 iTunes card so they can purchase prestige DLC for a phone game over actual physical toys, while believing that music and movies should be free to download illegally, there's been a fundamental shift in how people consume media. Of course, kids still like Legos and Hot Wheels and Barbies, but to say today is no different is being in denial.
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Paul Kimball
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Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 2:02am | IP Logged | 6
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No, Rob, Spider-totem = crap is not an opinion. It's fact
+++++++++
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 2:11am | IP Logged | 7
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We're talking at cross-purposes here. Of course kids consume media differently than I did. I consumed it differently than my father before me. So what? I'm not saying that hasn't changed. I'd challenge you to find where I've ever written that. Ever. What I'm challenging is the notion that just because it's consumed differently, that comics must fall by the wayside. That video games, cable, iPads and the like are so VASTLY different than the changes that I experienced in media when I was a kid that it's only normal for kids to drift away from them. It's not. They drift away because the companies have decided not to target them. I have nieces and nephews that were into the same things I was 30 years removed. Why? Those companies that catered to me still continued to cater to them. Marvel doesn't do that. Sorry, but three titles doesn't equate to an attempt in my book no matter how good those individual titles may be.
So, yeah, my niece may want an iTunes card but she still wants to watch LITTLE HOUSE ON THE PRAIRIE. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
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Michael Roberts
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 2:12am | IP Logged | 8
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I'm not saying SMAHAF was a perfect match to the comics, but it was
pretty darn close, aside from the Spider-Friends team concept. The
character himself was essentially unchanged.
----
I'd argue that giving Peter two confidantes who can understand his situation and potentially cover for him strips away a lot of the conflict and solitude Peter feels when his responsibilities as Spider-Man interfere with his personal life. That's a pretty fundamental part of the character.
I mean, I loved SPIDER-MAN AND HIS AMAZING FRIENDS, but if the argument is that certain changes take the character off-model, I don't understand why that change gets a pass.
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Michael Roberts
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 2:22am | IP Logged | 9
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So, yeah, my niece may want an iTunes card but she still wants to watch LITTLE HOUSE ON THE PRAIRE. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
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Which is not what I was saying. What I'm saying is that the appeal of a Superman radio show got pushed to the niche when they gained the ability to do a Superman TV show.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 2:33am | IP Logged | 10
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Right...but the Superman comics during that time were still selling like gangbusters. So I think that puts the lie to the notion that once someone "sees it for real" than the written drops off.
You want a one for one for one. Comics came into being which were supplanted by radio which were supplanted by TV which were supplanted by movies. But that's not the case because sales of Superman comics were bolstered by both the radio and TV series. In the 50s, with both radio and TV, the comics were doing just fine. Why? They appealed to the same audience and, for the most part, looked exactly the same. I challenge you to find a current Hulk comic that looks the same as the Hulk that appeared in AGE OF ULTRON.
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Michael Roberts
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 2:35am | IP Logged | 11
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Right...but the Superman comics during that time were still selling like gangbusters. So I think that puts the lie to the notion that once someone "sees it for real" than the written drops off.
----
QUOTE:
| Comic books used to have an advantage in that they could do big, epic things that you could not portray in live-action, or even animation. Current technology now allows us to portray these things. |
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
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| Posted: 03 July 2015 at 2:45am | IP Logged | 12
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So...you're quoting yourself as a source? Seriously?
Putting that aside, then I guess all books must be on the shit-slide. I mean, just because they write it doesn't mean it's as good as how you can film it so why not just wait for the movie?
Poor HARRY POTTER...wait...
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Topic Closed)
