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Lars Sandmark
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3144
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 6:39pm | IP Logged | 1
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Koroush you are right about opera.
It used to be very popular and now it is merely a niche form of entertainment.
Opera does not have blockbuster movies about it that make millions of dollars.
Comicbook SuperHeroes do.
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Koroush Ghazi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1681
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | 2
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Blockbuster superhero movies don't necessarily translate into people wanting to read comics. Much the same way that blockbuster superhero movies don't necessarily translate into hugely successful superhero video games or superhero novels.
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Lars Sandmark
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3144
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 7:12pm | IP Logged | 3
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Dude, without the foundation of the comic characters that have been popular for 50 years+ there wouldn't even be those movies or video games etc.
The reason that they are popular in the first place is because they were well crafted fictional characters.
They were consistantly portrayed and the current writers are mucking that up by making them grim and adult-only. Peter Parker as Tony Stark is not the reason Spider-Man has been so popular for all these years.
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2215
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 7:27pm | IP Logged | 4
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Here's my 2 cents on this discussion.
I think that Dan Slott (like so many of today's fans and fans turned pro) mistake and/or confuse the minor and superficial changes that older creators made to characters and their status quo with that of major drastic changes. The minor superficial changes (like Sue changing her codename from "Invisible Girl" to "Invisible Woman" or revealing and showing that She_Hulk has a humorous side to her personality) does not (if at all) greatly alter or remove those characters away from their core. The same thing can't be said for major drastic changes like turning Spidey from an "everyman" to a rich billionaire/Tony Stark knockoff. Most of the minor superficial changes can either be undone or ignored. However, major drastic changes can't be so easily undone without nothing short of a magical/cosmic retcon/reboot.
Now I'm pretty sure that this drastic change to Spidey's status quo (and most of the other drastic changes made to the status quo to the other Marvel characters) are only temporary and will be undone, but it most likely will open up a Pandora's Box that will led to possible bad stories by latter creators in the future. these types of stories are basically long "What If" stories that are cannon and told in the main continuity. The problem with these types of stories is that like the classic Bugs and Daffy cartoon where Daffy drank and swallowed all of those explosive chemicals and then swallowed a lit match, these type of stories can only be done once and are basically the "end of the story". How can a reader root for Peter Parker to have no more money problems when he has already become rich in the main continuity?
Dan Slott correctly points out that his Amazing Spider-Man and Superior Spider-Man runs are top selling Marvel comics, but he fails to mention that a major reason for those high sales are mostly due to variant covers (and other gimmicks) as well as because of completest and speculators.
In regards to Dan Slotts comments about Silver Surfer,Ms Marvel,and Squirrel Girl comics being suitable for all ages he is right about those books. However, the question should be asked (but I'm pretty sure that Dan won't give a straight honest answer) is why isn't all of the superhero comics in Marvel's shared universe suitable for all ages? Why are most of the comics featuring Marvel's well known superheroes not suitable for all ages?
In regards to the average Joe and Jane on the street knowing Who Iron Man and Spidey are, that is an assumption that shouldn't be taken as fact. Larry Hama once said in an interview that you can't assume that every person who picks up a Superman or Batman comic knows who those characters are. Not everyone in the world has seen the movies,TV shows,and merchandise featuring those characters.
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2215
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 7:39pm | IP Logged | 5
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IMO, a less drastic change to Peter/Spidey's financial status quo that would have kept his "everyman" status would have been to do what DeFalco and Frenze did with Peter in MC2 Spider-Girl comic, which was to have him take a job with the police as a forensic scientist for the police. They could even show him going to school for it.
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Philip Obaza
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 December 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 324
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 9:17pm | IP Logged | 6
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So much to catch up on in this thread!
I've only read a handful of Dan Slott's Spider-Man issues; it was shortly after that I stopped reading for good (for many reasons - finances, waning interest, and a little story called, 'One More Day' among them).
And while I'm sure there's new material to be enjoyed, the Spider-Man of today is just so off-model from the one I grew up reading in the 90s (and even further from the character he was created as in the 60s) that he's no longer relatable to me.
Greg Kirkman has said this before and I agree: Spider-Man used to be probably the most relatable superhero of them all; the one who could be *you*.
But then his girlfriend was murdered by a super villain, then he got married, then found out he was a clone, then he mutated into a spider- monster, then he became an Avenger, then he made a deal with the devil...and so on and so on.
Edited by Philip Obaza on 02 July 2015 at 9:18pm
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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 9:49pm | IP Logged | 7
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Spider-Man was my favorite characters growing up.
++++++++
He's still my favorite, dagnabbit.
That character as I know and love him may be long since gone, buried
under ill-conceived "fixes", but he's still my favorite.
When he's done right (as with Lee-Ditko, Lee-Romita, Conway-Andru,
Stern-JRJR, etc., etc.), it's just magic.
I've come to accept that the era of comics I love so much was perhaps
a product of its time and place, and a wonderful mix of elements that
can't be replicated. Perhaps it had its time. But, I'm glad to have the
memories. Despite being a longtime fan, I certainly don't feel like I'm
being pandered to, and have no interest in anything current being
output by either Marvel or DC. Nothing I read about hooks me. And,
when articles have headlines which read, "Dan Slott does X with
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN", well, yeah, it seems more about the singer
than the song (no disrespect intended to Mr. Slott).
And, y'know, maybe that's okay. I'm not sure if comics outgrew me, or if
I outgrew them, since I still read plenty of comics. Just nothing currently
being published. There are decades' worth of stories that are worth my
time, and I would rather read early 70s FANTASTIC FOUR (as I'm
currently doing) instead of the latest issue. Oh...wait. Didn't FF get
cancelled?
Sigh.
No disrespect intended to anyone currently working on the books, but I
highly doubt that I'd be able to pick up a recent issue and see "my"
Spider-Man. I haven't seen anything close to that guy since, oh, 1992
or so. Realistically, I think DeFalco-Frenz may have been the last truly
great era for the character (not trying to generalize, of course, since
there were certainly other good creative teams and stories after that
run).
Of course, I'd have to go to a comic shop to even make the attempt to
see what currently going on, since my local supermarket doesn't carry
comics.
Edited by Greg Kirkman on 02 July 2015 at 9:53pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 9:53pm | IP Logged | 8
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Spider-Man used to be what's called a "street level" hero. His adventures were not supposed to be cosmic, like the FF. But that was lost a long time ago, wasn't it? Basically, he became the Silver Age Batman. Fighting aliens*. Traveling thru time. Undergoing grotesque physical transformations. ----------- * Yeah, Stan and Steve did it first, but there's that "settling in" period again...
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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 9:57pm | IP Logged | 9
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Spider-Man used to be what's called a "street level" hero. His
adventures were not supposed to be cosmic, like the FF. But that was
lost a long time ago, wasn't it? Basically, he became the Silver Age
Batman. Fighting aliens*. Traveling thru time. Undergoing grotesque
physical transformations.
-----------
* Yeah, Stan and Steve did it first, but there's that "settling in" period
again...
+++++++++
...and then Roger Stern came along and cleverly fixed that story, while
also using it to flesh out a bit of Mysterio's backstory. Brilliant!
Fortunately, there are very few hiccups like that in the early stories.
Spider-Man was almost fully-formed from the start. I'd say that by
around issue # 4, everything was pretty much set perfectly in place,
with a only a few tweaks to come, just down the road.
Edited by Greg Kirkman on 02 July 2015 at 9:58pm
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 10:03pm | IP Logged | 10
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Spider-Man was my favorite characters growing up.
++++++++
He's still my favorite, dagnabbit.
~~~~~~~~~~ Spidey is still mine as well. Thou finding him is harder than it use to be. I still get a thrill when I find an old comic. Finding the two volume collection of Spider- Man strips was a like finding a treasure chest.
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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 10:12pm | IP Logged | 11
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Frankly, I've been avoiding even old Spider-Man comics for years,
because of my sadness over where things have gone. I've finally
reached a point where I've been leafing through random issues, again,
from time to time.
Aside from trade reprints of the earliest issues of ASM, I have complete
runs of ASM, SPECTACULAR, MTU, and WEB up until 1992. When I
finally sit down to read them all in order, it will be glorious.
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 11:11pm | IP Logged | 12
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Frankly, I've been avoiding even old Spider-Man comics for years,
because of my sadness over where things have gone.````````````` Greg perhaps you need to me find a new place to live. Would you care to join me in a state of denial ?
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Topic Closed)
