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Stéphane Garrelie
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 August 2005
Location: France
Posts: 4226
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | 1
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I started with Len Wein and Ross Andru and then Marv Wolfman. There also were some Conway/ Andru amongst the very first i read from friends.The very first i bought was Wein's last, before that I was reading Len Wein on Batman.
Edited by Stéphane Garrelie on 02 July 2015 at 2:08pm
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Stéphane Garrelie
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 August 2005
Location: France
Posts: 4226
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 2:05pm | IP Logged | 2
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And of course there were reprints of Lee/Ditko, Spectacular by Stern ( and before that Mantlo), Team up by Mantlo and Sal Buscema and after that Claremont and Byrne.
Edited by Stéphane Garrelie on 02 July 2015 at 2:07pm
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 2:19pm | IP Logged | 3
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My first Spider-Man comic was a copy of MARVEL TALES
that reprinted ASM 50 (I was confused as to how there
were letters printed in the letters column about the
issue I was just reading). I honestly didn't know it was
(at the time) 20 years old.
"Change" is promoted as an overall good in serial
storytelling. And I know that today it's common to knock
a series like THE BEVERLY HILLBILLIES because its
characters never "changed" or "grew." They were the same
in the final season as they were in the first. If you
aired that series today, change would be impossible to
avoid. Elly May would be a polished society girl -- in
fact, all of the characters might have "grown"
sufficiently from their experiences that a new viewer
might even ask, "Uh, why is it called The Beverly
Hillbillies again?"
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | 4
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Leigh: However I will say that Dan Slott is one of the
writers whose work at Marvel I've still enjoyed in
recent years (and not that it should matter but his work
on The Thing, She-Hulk and Great Lakes Avengers were all
dripping with Byrne-love).
His Spider-Man work has been generally very good with
just occasional dips story-wise (Spider-Island!) and
art-wise (Humberto Ramos!!). I wasn't sure about
Superior-Spider-Man but it won me over pretty quickly
but I've stopped buying all new Marvel stuff now and
despite Dan's comments, can't see me changing my mind.
SER: I also think Dan Slott is a perfectly good writer.
I just think most of his Spider-Man work is "off-model."
I respect that others disagree and I doubt my opinion
troubles him that much. He's successful at what he's
doing.
But I will say that 'good' is often the enemy of
'right.' Leifeld's HEROES REBORN Captain America was
incompetent so it was easy to declare it a failure. But
I admit when I was a kid I was fine with a mentally
unbalanced Bruce Banner because I liked the writing. And
that has haunted the character ever since.
A Spider-Man who is more like Batman and Iron Man than
the Lee/Ditko Spider-Man (this is not hyperbole) might
be well-written but is it Spider-Man... at least in
anything but name? JB and Roger Stern could have started
their Captain America run by having Steve Rogers inherit
millions and buy a palatial Long Island estate that he
named Rogers Manor. His "cover" would be Steve Rogers,
millionaire playboy ("Hey," the writer would say, "Steve
is handsome and charming! Of course the ladies love him!
And why wouldn't he love the ladies!"). And he'd fight
crime as Captain America. Still Captain America, right?
And it's well-written and beautifully drawn!
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12717
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 2:39pm | IP Logged | 5
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I also think Dan Slott is a perfectly good writer.
***
I'm sure that many current and young comicbook artists and writers are not merely serviceable but manifestly quite talented. For me, all the more sad, then, that they aren't working on model...!
Edited by Michael Penn on 02 July 2015 at 2:43pm
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Leigh DJ Hunt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 February 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1570
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 2:40pm | IP Logged | 6
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...just occasional dips story-wise (Spider-Island!) and art-wise (Humberto Ramos!!)...••• Ramos to you was a DIP? I quite like his stuff. ---------------- 'Fraid So. Stylistic art like that clearly has its place in the world but for me, it doesn't belong at Marvel. All my favourite artists make heroes look amazing but still 'real'.
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Lance Hill
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2005
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 2:57pm | IP Logged | 7
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QUOTE:
| For years, Stan and Ditko, Stan and Romita, Conway and Andru managed to write Spider-Man stories that served the character, not their own needs. That's why they're CLASSIC tales and highly regarded in the industry as apposed to the storylines told in the past ten years. Why is it so hard for the "All new, All-different Marvel" to understand? |
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There's a brand new Gerry Conway Spider-Man comic on the shelves right now. Part 4 was released yesterday.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14857
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | 8
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SER: I also think Dan Slott is a perfectly good writer.
I just think most of his Spider-Man work is "off-model."
I respect that others disagree and I doubt my opinion
troubles him that much. He's successful at what he's
doing.
-----
It's certainly off-formula, but at least his Peter still feels like Peter, as opposed to what we had through all of the JMS run.
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Trevor Thompson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 June 2015
Posts: 346
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 3:25pm | IP Logged | 9
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SER: My first Spider-Man comic was a copy of MARVEL TALES
that reprinted ASM 50 (I was confused as to how there
were letters printed in the letters column about the
issue I was just reading). I honestly didn't know it was
(at the time) 20 years old.
******************************************
That got me, too. I should have caught on that the clothes the characters wore were dated, too.
Mr Byrne: One of the problems -- and I have, indeed, benefitted from this! -- is that to a great extent it has become all about the singer, and not the song. There was a time when there were not even credits in comics, as many of you know, and those of us who wanted to follow a particular artist did so based on style. (Not so easy with writers!)But it was the CHARACTERS that were important. And, yes, the characters were expected to stay the same, not constantly change to feed the egos of the "talent" and the ennui of the consumers. **************************************************** I have read quite a lot of your books when I was a kid and didn't even know they were by you. No disrespect but I couldn't have cared who the writer or artist, It was the characters and story that mattered. Now we have books with the writer and artist on the cover as if they're the stars of the show rather than the characters.
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Koroush Ghazi
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Joined: 25 October 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1681
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 4:35pm | IP Logged | 10
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Lars Sandmark wrote:
Comics used to sell a half millions issues per month now the top selling titles barely can crack a hundred thousand. A fraction of the all ages-aimed material of the past.
Their current sales model is a failure compared to the successful model of the past.
I'm starting to think you're just being facetious. |
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No, it's a perfectly legitimate question. Opera used to be incredibly popular too, and opera singers were treated like movie stars, known and respected the world over. But now opera is a niche form of entertainment, supplanted by the various other forms that have emerged, and few sane people expect it to ever return to its former glory.
I did note however in one of my earlier posts that there is a strong case for Marvel to at least try running a genuine all ages line using their major characters alongside their current line, and this should put the issue to bed one way or another.
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Michael Roberts
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Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14857
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 5:00pm | IP Logged | 11
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Comic books used to have an advantage in that they could do big, epic things that you could not portray in live-action, or even animation. Current technology now allows us to portray these things. Kids are still interested in superheroes, but comics as a medium are a niche product.
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Peter Martin
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Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 6:07pm | IP Logged | 12
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Stephen said: But I will say that 'good' is often the enemy of 'right.'-------------------------------------------- Yeah, I think this is an important point when it comes to being a custodian of characters of high cultural importance.
You may be able to tell a brilliant story with one of these characters, but if the end result is the character permanently transmuted for all future generations, it isn't worth it.
If the character can be returned back to its core, essential version for future tales then there isn't really a problem.
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