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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133569
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 9:47am | IP Logged | 1
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A lot has come along to replace comics, of course. DVDs, videogames, etc. But there remains the fact that over the last thirty-five years or so, the industry has deliberately turned it's back on the younger readers. The NEW readers. First by making buying comics a major project -- seeking out the "local" comic shop, often miles away -- and the. By making them increasingly inaccessible. (I was appalled recently, when one writer, finding his continuity heavy plots a topic of complaint, declared "If you don't already know this stuff, why are you even reading them?")A general distribution product was turned into a niche market product. And, golly winkies!! Sales dropped!!
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Adam Hutchinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4502
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 9:48am | IP Logged | 2
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But those kids get their superhero stories in
different ways than we did/do. Their superhero itch
can be scratched with cartoons, movies, TV Shows
(accessed from TV, Streaming, DVDs/Blu-rays, etc.),
video games, digital comics, printed collections,
illustrated books, and on and on.
Claiming that returning to purely all ages content
(which in and of itself is highly subjective) will
result in increase sales of comics (which isn't the
only way the beans are counted now) is not at all
realistic. Neither is claiming that the turn away
from all ages content is what drove readers away.
Entertainment, in all its forms, but especially in
print, has evolved into an almost unrecognizable
creature over the last 20-25 years.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133569
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 9:52am | IP Logged | 3
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Claiming that returning to purely all ages content (which in and of itself is highly subjective) will result in increase sales of comics (which isn't the only way the beans are counted now) is not at all realistic. Neither is claiming that the turn away from all ages content is what drove readers away. Entertainment, in all its forms, but especially in print, has evolved into an almost unrecognizable creature over the last 20-25 years.••• Unfortunately, that is the kind of thinking that puts us where we are. "Oh, we're losing large parts of our audience! Let's concentrate on keeping what's left!" This is how we get celebrations for books that sell what was barely more than spoilage when I joined the industry.
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Adam Hutchinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4502
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 9:56am | IP Logged | 4
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QUOTE:
This is how we get celebrations for books that
sell what was barely more than spoilage when I joined
the industry. |
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How many books were being bought digitally on tablets or
collected and sold at book stores when you joined the
industry? To this layman (who does have serious
problems with the way physical comics are distributed),
comparing 35-40 year old sales figures with those from
the last 5 or so years seems a little apples to oranges.
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Trevor Thompson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 June 2015
Posts: 346
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 10:00am | IP Logged | 5
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This is how we get celebrations for books that sell what was barely more than spoilage when I joined the industry.
****************************************
Books, which would have been cancelled back in your days.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133569
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 10:02am | IP Logged | 6
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How many books were being bought digitally on tablets or collected and sold at book stores when you joined the industry? To this layman (who does have serious problems with the way physical comics are distributed), comparing 35-40 year old sales figures with those from the last 5 or so years seems a little apples to oranges.••• Yes, just keep thinking that way. Can't be fixed, so THIS must be doing it right!
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 10:07am | IP Logged | 7
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Adam Hutchinson noted that comics are being bought digitally on tablets, or in collections, and comparing sales figures from the 60s and 70s to the last five years.
But in that time, the population has increased, distribution methods have improved, support via other media has occurred, and other factors that would make one assume that comic sales would increase - provided that the product was in demand.
Mr. Byrne notes that the comics industry is focusing on existing audience instead of trying to obtain new audience. Too true, and I fell that at this point, it has so degraded and decayed that comics would effectively have to be considered a NEW industry to try to make inroads to the buying public.
I don't believe that pre-teens and teenagers - once the target audience - are even very aware of comic books. Comic book heroes, yes - there are plenty of TV shows and movies for that. But it seems the situation is that the comics aren't so important, and increasing their audience isn't so important.
And while I am a fan of episodic fantasy, as most books seem to be today, there should also be some done-in-one books, for all ages*, and priced affordably for that target audience. At four bucks a book, that's a lot for a "disposable" form of entertainment.
But at this late date, it may be hard to turn back THAT tide.
*All ages means that old men like me, at 54, should be willing to accept teenage suitable material, even if it lacks the deep themes and complex affairs that I'm told I should enjoy.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12767
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 10:12am | IP Logged | 8
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But those kids get their superhero stories in different ways than we did/do. Their superhero itch can be scratched with cartoons, movies, TV Shows (accessed from TV, Streaming, DVDs/Blu-rays, etc.), video games, digital comics, printed collections, illustrated books, and on and on.
***
I discovered superheroes through cartoons, live action TV shows, and movies. That was 45 years ago. Many changes since then, surely, many more ways to "get into" superheroes than physical comicbooks. But this isn't about being a luddite. I've personally seen kids over the past 20 years -- that's about four generations of readers! -- who truly wanted to hold in their precious little hands new comicbooks but found nothing is out there for them. Where they could possibly overcome the difficulties of access, they were stymied by the content. One-Two-Punch... Knockout.
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Jason Larouse
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 May 2011
Posts: 515
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 10:14am | IP Logged | 9
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It's worth noting that video games and home movies (the internet, technically, but not so much) were around in the 80s and early 90s when kids were still buying comics.The Tim Burton BATMAN movie even caused a noticeable increase in the sales of Batman comics, which is something that modern comic book movies (save WATCHMEN) don't do.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133569
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 10:18am | IP Logged | 10
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*All ages means that old men like me, at 54, should be willing to accept teenage suitable material, even if it lacks the deep themes and complex affairs that I'm told I should enjoy.••• Not quite. All-Ages should mean that you can read and enjoy a comic when you're ten, and if you happen to come back to that same comic when you're 20 you'll find LAYERS there of which you were not previously aware. Likewise at 30 and forty, and so on. Emphasis for those who are determined to miss the point: this is the same COMIC, not merely the same TITLE. The same TITLE today should be as accessible to a 10 year old as that TITLE was forty years ago.
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Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 10:28am | IP Logged | 11
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To, the issue with numbers sold, a large part of fewer
copies sold, is the increase in number of titles. You're
spreading the same, or maybe more dollars around to more
titles. So, the the number of each title sold is less.
My issue with this is in production cost. I don't
understand why a publisher would want more titles instead
of fewer titles which would lower production cost. You
would see the numbers on each titles increase and lower
spending. Marvel's revamp is going to produce about 80
titles. I think both the consumer and the publisher, as
well as the retailer, would be better served by having a 25
title line.
With 25 titles, it's my theory that you'd get a large
number of people buying the line for 100 dollars as opposed
to picking and choosing there books to read. Discounts for
the retailer would help them as well as spending less on
volume. The publishers would make more by keeping the same
or more profit , but with overhead.
As for drama coming from change, as Mr. Slot mentioned,
whether he's correct or incorrect, you have to be careful
what change you decide to make. The Peter/Doc Ock Spider-
Man, is a bell that can be unrung and can make for an
interesting story. Making him 35 isn't one that can be
unrung. It might make for a great story, but what are you
leaving for a future writer? What happens to Peter if the
youthful Spider-Man in Myles Morales doesn't continue to
garner a following. Now you have a legacy character that
can never be what made him great in the first place.
I handle money all day at work. I COULD steal it all, but
it doesn't mean I SHOULD.
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Leigh DJ Hunt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 February 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1570
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| Posted: 02 July 2015 at 10:30am | IP Logged | 12
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In general I'm on JB's side of the fence in this argument. I do think Marvel are making massive mistakes (comics-wise) and it all seems un recoverable now.
However I will say that Dan Slott is one of the writers whose work at Marvel I've still enjoyed in recent years (and not that it should matter but his work on The Thing, She-Hulk and Great Lakes Avengers were all dripping with Byrne-love).
His Spider-Man work has been generally very good with just occasional dips story-wise (Spider-Island!) and art-wise (Humberto Ramos!!). I wasn't sure about Superior-Spider-Man but it won me over pretty quickly but I've stopped buying all new Marvel stuff now and despite Dan's comments, can't see me changing my mind.
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Topic Closed)
