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Petter Myhr Ness Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 02 July 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 3860
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Posted: 08 June 2015 at 2:55am | IP Logged | 1
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Wow. Marvel is copying all of DC's mistakes. Who would have thought?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132673
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Posted: 08 June 2015 at 3:17am | IP Logged | 2
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It's all a case of trying to have it all ways.Back when DC launched what came to be known as the "Silver Age," in the mid-Fifties, the "new" characters were started with clean, unencumbered beginnings. Even tho they were in the same "universe" as Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, who'd had unbroken runs since the "Golden Age," the new Flash, Green Lantern, Atom, Hawkman &c were introduced as brand new characters, with no attempt made to explain what had happened to the people who previously bore those names. (In a move that would make the heads of many modern fans explode, Barry Allen was actually seen reading an old issue of FLASH COMICS in his debut story.) There was, in other words, no pandering to pre-existing readers, who were anyway considered to be a very, very small demographic. It had been more than half a decade since the last issue of FLASH COMICS had been published. No current readers were expected to have read it. At least, none that mattered. But the birth of the "Silver Age" did more than relaunch the superhero concept in a big way. It also laid the foundations for a new kind of fan, the fan who wanted it all to fit together. (Ironically, the very fact that the "rebirth" didn't fit with what had gone before probably encouraged this kind of thinking in some.) And over the years and decades, those fans came to have greater and greater power within the industry, especially once they started infiltrating the companies, and became not only readers but "creators." Which brings us to this most recent circle jerk from Marvel -- rebirthing themselves, but with everything still deeply entrenched in what has gone before.
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Bill Pope Byrne Robotics Member
![Avatar](http://images.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/BillPope/2015-06-06_143003_Beta_Ray_Bill.jpg)
Joined: 30 May 2015 Location: United States Posts: 21
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Posted: 08 June 2015 at 4:25am | IP Logged | 3
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DAMN! looks like it's up to me to turn this whole mess around, and start righting, wrongs....or is that re-writing, wrongs? Anywho... I'll use my cosmic egg power! Here goes... Power beyond which is power, knowledge beyond which is thought What can Marvel do which I can not undo!!!! SHHRIZZACT!!! KRACKABOOM!!! THOOM!!!
...anything change yet
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7704
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Posted: 08 June 2015 at 4:53am | IP Logged | 4
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A thought just struck me. Thor has been a horse and a frog. Both those stories were done and done in less time than it took to find out who the woman was who is now Thor. Let alone how long it is before Thor gets his hammer back.
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Eric Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 27 October 2013 Location: United States Posts: 2327
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Posted: 08 June 2015 at 5:06am | IP Logged | 5
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Notice how so many things that were one-offs in WHAT IF--? forty years ago are now being turned into long-running arcs or series?
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John Bodin Byrne Robotics Member
Purveyor of Rare Items
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3911
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Posted: 08 June 2015 at 5:41am | IP Logged | 6
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Ronald Joseph wrote:
IIRC, he's half black/half Puerto Rican, and gay. |
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Huh -- in the DCU, he'd be known as "Prez, the Ultimate Presidential Candidate(TM)".
:-/
Speaking of DC, I wonder what their lawyers are going to think of The Vision ripping-off Scott Free's costume? Looks a whole lot like a Kirby creation to me. Not a bad thing, but not necessarily The Vision.
Brian Miller wrote:
Dr. Strange needs a battle axe now? Jesus... |
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Jason Scott wrote:
As for Strange and the axe. Yeah, I think Marvel should give him some pouches, a bomber jacket, and a backpacked shotgun. Then the reversion to 90's cool will be complete. He can be the 'Extreme' Strange. |
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Yeah . . . now they've GOT to get Todd McFarlane to do the art chores!
:-|
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Eric Sofer Byrne Robotics Member
![Avatar](http://images.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/EricSofer/2018-08-14_094717_ELS_Shrek_12-14.jpg)
Joined: 31 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 4789
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Posted: 08 June 2015 at 6:11am | IP Logged | 7
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ITEM: I swear that some of those drawings - and much of the art being published by both of the Big Two (tm) - seems to me so much like "Look Mommy, I drawed Iron Man!" ITEM: There has to be consistency. If a character is in three books in one month, and he has a different costume in each... some editors are blowing their jobs. Now, per this page, there's another set of "guidelines" - and these don't seem like straight style sheet drawings to me. ITEM: It occurs to me that, with movies and TV driving the comics and characters today, the redesigns are being mandated by those media. ITEM: Thor? Dr. Spectrum? "Is there any reason this character can't be a woman?" ITEM: I can't help but think that Marvel will take about six to nine months before they have a story (or two, or twelve or...) with these redesigned characters' books showing a cover with the previous standard, with perhaps "Captain America returns! (And Steve Rogers isn't sure what to make of it!)" ITEM: I'm 54 years old. I started collecting in the 60s. I am NOT their target audience. (Am I a grumpy old fogey? Yeah, probably.)
I lost my job a couple months back (and am going to be reemployed soon - yay!) and I had to drop my comics to keep expenses down. That meant dropping about six titles, three of which were from the Big Two (tm). I find that I miss 'em a little, but the preponderance of JUNK makes me happier to have dropped it from my life. I have my TPBs, I have my current collection - and at four bucks a pop, I wasn't getting NEARLY my value for my entertainment dollar. This set of images convinces me that Marvel ("We got it right the first time") and DC are no longer worth my effort. Too much dross, too few gems.
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Bill Collins Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 26 May 2005 Location: England Posts: 11266
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Posted: 08 June 2015 at 7:56am | IP Logged | 8
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Awful! Since when did Doctor Strange use an axe? The hood on Spider-Gwen(Urgh!) is such an impractical item,you`d need spider-senses just to see your way around! Why is The Thing wearing his awful jumpsuit tied around his waist,it looks so scruffy! Is Ms Marvel channeling Reed Richards` powers? A lot of it seems to be the tail wagging the dog in how the costumes are going for the tv/movie looks,but that begs the question...nowadays which is the tail and which is the dog?
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Steve De Young Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 01 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 3496
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Posted: 08 June 2015 at 8:07am | IP Logged | 9
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Why is The Thing wearing his awful jumpsuit tied around his waist,it looks so scruffy! ------------------------------------ The Thing is now a member of the Guardians of the Galaxy, that's his outer space jumpsuit.
And the Human Torch is apparently in the Inhumans, and in a relationship with Medusa. Which makes no sense because they could have just as easily hooked him up with Crystal, and because they just introduced a new Inhuman named Inferno with fire powers.
There is no Fantastic Four anymore. (I'm sure that has nothing to do with Fox Studios).
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Kip Lewis Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 01 March 2011 Posts: 2880
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Posted: 08 June 2015 at 8:12am | IP Logged | 10
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Is Ms Marvel channeling Reed Richards` powers? ......
As stated above, that is the new Ms Marvel introduced a couple of years ago. She isn't connected to Carol Danvers, except she is a fan of the original.
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Kevin Brown Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 31 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 8862
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Posted: 08 June 2015 at 8:23am | IP Logged | 11
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I liked this better what it was done in 1985 and called Crisis on Infinite Earths....
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Olav Bakken Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 15 June 2014 Posts: 241
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Posted: 08 June 2015 at 8:25am | IP Logged | 12
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When Marvel or DC decided to give their universe a new start, it used to be a reason for it. DC's old characters were pretty much dead when they wanted to give it their superheroes another try by coming up with new versions of the old characters. Reinvent a character is by the way a much better approach than changing old characters into the unrecognizable by giving them a new personality, new appearance (not talking about costumes) and now and then some retconning.
The original Crisis was made to "clean up" in the multiverse.
The original Secret Wars was according to Jim Shooter meant to promote a toy line of Marvel characters.
But at some point the big events started to be made for no other reason that the big events themselves, with countless crossovers as a result. And then somebody felt that each huge event should be followed by some sort of rebirth. At least in DC and now also in Marvel.
Some of the fans who read this stuff will eventually become comic book creators themselves, and want to use their own ideas and wish to be a part of something big, and leave their own mark on it.
I prefer the characters I know to continue to be the characters I know. And a comic to be about the adventures and events these characters experience. Good storytelling don't require universe shattering events, and the latter does not necessarily make it good storytelling. When a character or a comic book is changed more and more often, it feels like what you used to love is lost forever. And it's not just nostalgia.
These huge changes are also used as promotion these days, to catch the attention from the public and a hope that it will attract new readers. And obviously, the successful live action movies also have a strong influence on the comics.
When Jean Grey died the first time in X-Men, I think it got some media attention, and the sales of the comic increased in the following months. But the later trends of killing a character just for the sake of publicity and then bring the characters to life again later on is cheating.
All Star DC Comics was a very good idea. Then the writers who wanted to test their own ideas on a character or team could do so without having to mess with the continuity of the "real" DC universe. But continuity these days seems to be pretty much gone anyway.
Can't say I'm too thrilled about the art style. Different does not have to mean bad, but there is a certain style associated with superhero comics I prefer and until recently was a tradition. Artists I can think of is George Perez, Brian Bolland, John Byrne, Tom Grummett, Alan Davis, Curt Swan, Ernie Chan, Dave Gibbons, John Buscema, Chris Weston, Jim Starlin and Bernie Wrightson and so on. It's a little sad that this clear and clean style that is loyal to human anatomy is becoming increasingly rare these days.
Edited by Olav Bakken on 10 June 2015 at 6:49am
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