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Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2880
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| Posted: 23 January 2015 at 8:28am | IP Logged | 1
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But didn't they kill that idea the moment
they started introducing fake countries?
That started early.
Edited by Kip Lewis on 23 January 2015 at 8:34am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
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| Posted: 23 January 2015 at 8:46am | IP Logged | 2
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But didn't they kill that idea the moment they started introducing fake countries? That started early. •• To my 13 year old self Latveria was every bit as real as the other postage stamp sized nations that seemed to inhabit central Europe.
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Paul Greer
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004
Posts: 14191
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| Posted: 23 January 2015 at 8:52am | IP Logged | 3
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The sadest part, for me, is that I don't care. I am not angry and I am not
interested. Ten years ago I would have cared, but so much bad stuff has
happened over the years I am completely numb to all this.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12708
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| Posted: 23 January 2015 at 9:28am | IP Logged | 4
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Brilliant to conceive of "Latveria." Sounds real enough, clearly suggesting Eastern Europe, which was still a dark, almost magical place in the early 60s to white-bread Americans, and it has the inestimable virtue of not singling out a real country as the kingdom of a madman genius seeking to rule the world with supreme power.
We spent the past week visiting family in Florida, including my wife's aunt, a bit older than JB, whose parents were from Eastern Europe, and she reminded us of a Yiddish saying that had been regularly applied to my wife's grandmother, who seemed to have an almost magical touch in business -- they said she had "eyn oyringl," that is, "one earring," in other words, the stereotypical super-savvy of a gypsy, who often was thus accoutered.
It's best not to forget Jack and Stan had that kind of background, immersed in those kinds of sayings and the ideas behind them.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
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| Posted: 23 January 2015 at 9:37am | IP Logged | 5
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There was definitely a New York Jewish sensibility to those early Marvel comics -- not that I recognized it as such at the time. But there was in each character that sense of struggle, of drive, even faith. Roger Stern wrote an essay for CPL in which he took the position that Peter Parker was Jewish -- and not only Jewish. Very much in the PORTNOY'S COMPLAINT school.I hadn't really thought about this before, but the influx of fans-turned-pro not only tipped the scales away from the Old Guard, but also from those sensibilities. Increasingly Marvel comics were being written, drawn and edited by middle class non-Jewish guys who'd not known a day of struggle in their lives. (Which, oddly enough, did not include me, except for the non-Jewish part. My family had known hard times when I was a child.)
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15950
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| Posted: 23 January 2015 at 10:17am | IP Logged | 6
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For me, Latveria immediately conjured Latvia (in fact, I think I got the two confused for a while as a child), though that is probably more eastern than Latveria is supposed to be.
Edited by Peter Martin on 23 January 2015 at 10:17am
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Jesus Garcia
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 April 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 2414
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| Posted: 23 January 2015 at 10:28am | IP Logged | 7
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I never picked up on the Jewish influences in my earlier years of reading this Marvel Story vintage, but I definitely picked up on the working class conditions.
Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, Hal Jordan, Barry Allen all had nice upper-class jobs and never an apparent need for money. I didn't have a clue what sports they watched, hobbies they had, what food they ate.
Now, Peter Parker was always broke, the FF actually went bankrupt, and the Thing both watched and worked in wrassling for a while.
Ben even took time out for a sandwich and a glass of milk between Dr. Doom resurrections.
Growing up, this setting was much closer to my own -- much more than being driven around by Alfred to playboy parties or hanging out in a castle-like mansion or flying jet airplanes.
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Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
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| Posted: 23 January 2015 at 10:45am | IP Logged | 8
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If I was editor and chief, I'd only publish the Marvel Masterworks and Marvel Omnibus editions from days past and forget any new material. It just doesn't work anymore.
We can talk what may not necessarily work for some of us but there are a lot of younger readers that I talk to at my LCS that love what Marvel does. When I don't like certain things that are happening ("You say you love Marvel but you don't read Hawkeye??? You don't like think Spider-Gwen is cool??? You really need to check out what Bendis has done with the X-Men!!!") they think I'm crazy. Just because long time fans don't like the direction of Marvel doesn't mean that there aren't younger fans who like it. There just aren't necessarily as many as there used to be.
Edited by Shawn Kane on 23 January 2015 at 10:46am
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Michael Hogan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2061
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| Posted: 23 January 2015 at 10:50am | IP Logged | 9
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JB: Not a job I have EVER wanted. (No, not even with a death ray.)
=======================
But I'd pay good money to sit a block away with a bucket of popcorn watching THAT!
Sort of how Spider-Man and Daredevil watched "Everybody vs. Galactus" in the pages of FF.
JB with a death ray affecting retribution on those that deserve it! BWAH-HA-HA-HA-HAAH!!
Edited by Michael Hogan on 23 January 2015 at 10:52am
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12708
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| Posted: 23 January 2015 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | 10
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I can't think of anybody else who has done work more akin to the sensibilities found in Lee-Kirby than John Byrne.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
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| Posted: 23 January 2015 at 12:13pm | IP Logged | 11
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JB with a death ray affecting retribution on those that deserve it! ••• I'm not seeking retribution. I've often said that the only way to be an EiC is to have absolute power -- the aforementioned "death ray". Without that, all becomes chaos.
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Michael Hogan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2061
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| Posted: 23 January 2015 at 12:51pm | IP Logged | 12
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Okay, forget retribution, let's just go for unbridled mayhem!
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Topic Closed)
