| Author |
|
Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
|
| Posted: 19 January 2015 at 6:26pm | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
You're all focusing on the wrong books. Lots of great, current superhero books have been mentioned on this thread already, and even if you're focusing on just Marvel and DC, you can still strain your wallet every week keeping up on books that are fun to read. Daredevil, Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel, Silver Surfer, Amazing Spider-Man, Guardians of the Galaxy, Batgirl, pretty much all of that upcoming Convergence storyline from DC, probably a fair number of post-Convergence books (assuming that DC's learning something from Marvel's most recent "buzz" books, which are more new-reader friendly than they've been in decades)...
Branch out into Image, Dark Horse, Boom!, and IDW, and other publishers, and you can probably drop $50 a week on fun, high-quality, current comic books. Focusing on the books that aren't fun for you anymore is a waste of time. Maybe the next creative team on your favorite character will be more in line with what you like, maybe not. Or you could focus on creator-owned books that aren't subject to whatever some marketing executives decide.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7526
|
| Posted: 20 January 2015 at 7:52am | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
Indeed, thanks, JB! And thanks to everyone for posting. There ARE comics out there that do done-in-one or two-to-three issue story arcs, not six to eight "for the trade" or super-mega-gigantic crossovers... I guess I miss the days when Spider-Man would just beat the heck out of Stilt-Man, be late for a date with MJ or forget to pick up eggs for Aunt May, and maybe rip a hole in his costume or need a few bucks for web fluid. Y'know, my version of the good ol' days. :)
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
|
| Posted: 20 January 2015 at 10:05am | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
They are still out there and they definitely can still work. To do them
well I see two obstacles that have to be overcome.
1. You need to train writers to write economically. A good chunk of
writers simply don't have the training to write a one and done. They've
never had to do it.
2. The reader expectation that the only way a story matters is by long
last changes to whatever is considered the status quo. Reading the
reviews for the AvX event, one of gripes was that you read 20 issues
or more of story and in the end nothing really happened.
That is a learned expectation the reader has developed due to 10
years of constant event storytelling. The reader has to be retrained to
read one and done or even three issue arc comic books. Well, how do
you do that? IMO, again you have to gradually step the issue count
back. To go from an 8 issue arc to a one and done, I really believe,
you'll lose the current reader. The other is writers being able to write
the ILLUSION of change.
That's why event storytelling doesn't really work. A writer can take a
two year run, put the character through the ringer, but by the end of
his run, the character has to be back where they started. In the course
of two years of a monthly title, you can get away with it. JB did it with
Ben Grimm and Reed Richards in his FF run. Mark Gruenwald did it
with Captain America. Within event storytelling, you are asking a
reader to make an larger investment in terms of time and money. To
the point that the thinking becomes,
"There better be a big pay off to all of this!"
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15953
|
| Posted: 20 January 2015 at 10:19am | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
I hate the idea of a story having lasting changes.
Andrew's description of Spider-Man fighting Stilt-Man, being late for a date, forgetting to run an errand for Aunt May and getting low on web fluid --that's a fun story. I could read endless riffs on the basic core of battling a menace while juggling small personal issues and never grow bored.
The point I potentially lose interest is when the status quo gets shifted and the door slams shut on the very thing I was enjoying.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
|
| Posted: 20 January 2015 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
Peter, at the point reading that gets
boring, that when you move on. The medium
offers plenty of more adult stories.
Unfortunately too many fans have become
"pros" and decided to change the
characters and there situations to fit
there growing sensibilities. In do so,
they've stolen the characters from a
generation of new readers.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133324
|
| Posted: 20 January 2015 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
Andrew's description of Spider-Man fighting Stilt-Man, being late for a date, forgetting to run an errand for Aunt May and getting low on web fluid --that's a fun story. I could read endless riffs on the basic core of battling a menace while juggling small personal issues and never grow bored.••• For many modern writers, it seems, this is just too hard a task. For one thing, it requires coming up with lots of little bits of business in EVERY ISSUE. One of the reasons plots are preferable to full scripts. When the writer starts driving the boat solo, s/he has to do two jobs, thinking up the dialog AND the pictures. So much better to let the artist do his/her part of the job, with the freedom to follow where the muse leads. A typewriter is not a visual tool. For another thing, smearing a story over multiple issues is a pretty cushy job. Lee and Kirby, and Lee and Ditko could do in a single issue what today's writers do in six, or twelve, or however many their lack of discipline leads them to. "Decompression" they call it, and many fans seemed conned by this (the writer's version of "growing roses"). But these are often the same fans who complain that comics cost too much. They sure do, when the best you can expect is a sixth of the story per issue! Here's a thought: let's start paying writers by the STORY, rather than by the page. I'm sure they'd get to "compressing" in a flash!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7526
|
| Posted: 20 January 2015 at 1:03pm | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
That would be a shock to the system, if writers were paid by the story! What baffles me is that the writers who had the harder job of doing done-in-one stories often lasted for YEARS on titles, rather than surviving one protracted story arc and then moving on. You'd think there'd be a lot more turnover in the old days and less now, but... seems not so much.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133324
|
| Posted: 20 January 2015 at 1:09pm | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
What baffles me is that the writers who had the harder job of doing done-in-one stories often lasted for YEARS on titles, rather than surviving one protracted story arc and then moving on. You'd think there'd be a lot more turnover in the old days and less now, but... seems not so much. ••• Those old guys were professionals.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7526
|
| Posted: 20 January 2015 at 1:12pm | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
And if that description wasn't a bullseye, I don't know what could be.
Edited by Andrew Bitner on 20 January 2015 at 1:12pm
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2215
|
| Posted: 20 January 2015 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
For another thing, smearing a story over multiple issues is a pretty cushy job. Lee and Kirby, and Lee and Ditko could do in a single issue what today's writers do in six, or twelve, or however many their lack of discipline leads them to. "Decompression" they call it, and many fans seemed conned by this (the writer's version of "growing roses"). But these are often the same fans who complain that comics cost too much. They sure do, when the best you can expect is a sixth of the story per issue!
Here's a thought: let's start paying writers by the STORY, rather than by the page. I'm sure they'd get to "compressing" in a flash!
_________________________
This is why I roll my eyes every time I hear Bendis being touted or praised for writing the longest consecutive number of isues on the Avengers and Ultimate Spider-Man. He writes 150+ issues of each of those books, but if you take away the decompression, his run on those books would be about 30 issues long.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
|
| Posted: 20 January 2015 at 2:24pm | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
How many of you are actually reading the comics you're complaining about, and how many of you heard something about how Brian Michael Bendis was writing Spider-Man 15 years ago? That type of decompressed writing, padding things out for a six-issue trade no matter how much story you had, that's been out of favor for most of the past decade.
In the last five years, with digital distribution becoming even more important, creators know that they've got a lot of single-issue readers now, readers who might not get within a mile of a trade paperback, and they've adjusted their writing accordingly. Maybe I've been more selective with my reading this decade, but the last time I bought a comic that really only felt like I was buying one-sixth of a story was one of those big goofy Marvel crossovers that I got suckered into trying out.
Complaining about Bendis's decompressed early years of Ultimate Spider-Man is like complaining about the anatomy in Rob Liefeld's comics. It's an easy target, using a really dated reference, and it's not really relevant to comics published in 2015.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15953
|
| Posted: 20 January 2015 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
Liefeld's anatomy has improved?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Topic Closed)
