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Christophe Malgrain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2006
Location: France
Posts: 232
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| Posted: 08 January 2015 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | 1
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Things are not looking good : in my hometown, Le Mans, anti-muslims sent a grenade on a mosque and machine-gunned the walls last night. Several other attacks on mosques in other cities have been reported today. The idea of a street war is beginning to be taken seriously. If a muslim gets shot in an attack by white radicals, or a muslim terrorist shoots at civilians in a public place, things could get real ugly. Incredible !
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Joseph Gauthier
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Joined: 11 March 2009
Posts: 1421
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| Posted: 08 January 2015 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | 2
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A question for you, Christophe...or anyone really. What is it about the practice of Islam in Europe that leads to such insular societies, and so much tension with non-muslims? Here in North America, Muslims are our friends and neighbors, or coworkers and in-laws. By and large, they love and cherish western values and cherish their right to practice their religion as they choose.
Why do things seem so different, at least from my perspective, in Europe?
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Fabrice Renault
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Joined: 15 April 2004
Location: France
Posts: 3094
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| Posted: 08 January 2015 at 3:05pm | IP Logged | 3
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I think the main fact is that muslims are going back to the 7th century regarding their religion, and condemn everything that is not muslim. Look at how open minded Egypt was from the 50s through the 90s, and what it became. Here in France, they are continuously pushing for their religious views to be applied, and politics are listening to them. In most french schools nowadays, the menu is hallal. In several towns, catholic holidays are stripped of religious symbols.
A friend told me today that a high representative of islam in France was interviewed on tv yesterday regarding the attacks and TWICE the journalist asked him why he isn't addressing to those doing such horrible things and how the Coran is different and TWICE he eluded the question.
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Christophe Malgrain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2006
Location: France
Posts: 232
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| Posted: 08 January 2015 at 3:19pm | IP Logged | 4
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Oh, it's a complex question. I think basically, many French people perceive muslims as people refusing to adopt the French way of life and seeking to create a new Morocco ,Tunisia or Turkey in France. Traditional bakeries and sandwich shops are being replaced by Kebab restaurants in many towns and cities, halal meat is now sold everywhere and the non-muslim French are scared of becoming a minority in their own country in a few generations.
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Christophe Malgrain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2006
Location: France
Posts: 232
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| Posted: 08 January 2015 at 3:34pm | IP Logged | 5
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Many thanks to all the American comicbook artists who have expressed their support to Charlie.
http://www.comicsplace.net/2015/01/08/les-auteurs-de-comics- rendent-hommage-a-charlie-hebdo/
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Marcio Ferreira
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Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2518
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| Posted: 08 January 2015 at 4:25pm | IP Logged | 6
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Working link HERE Christophe.
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Carmen Bernardo
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Joined: 08 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 3666
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| Posted: 08 January 2015 at 5:02pm | IP Logged | 7
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I'll put the question about anti-Muslim backlash into this perspective. The French who're engaged in that sort of thing aren't feeling very secure after seeing an editorial office for a satirical newspaper get shot up and a dozen people killed. Given how they usually felt about strangers (the way that Jews were persecuted throughout European history comes to mind), this attack has certainly touched the raw nerve. Apparently, the people of Europe are just as insular and exclusive as they will make any outsider be, and it shows.
By contrast, the United States is at least trying to open doors, and we generally don't care what the religion is (that first Amendment never explicitly states which one), but the elements of European xenophobia were never fully expunged from our systems either. Recent trends have been producing a grumbling amongst Americans of European ancestry, many of whom hear the same drumbeat of "They're outnumbering us!" in regards to non-Europeans. I fear that this will result in some very huge mistakes that might well trigger the next "Big One".
The question is when cooler heads will prevail, and we actually get down to the business of catching the real bad guys __ the ones who actually plan and carry out the killings in whatever's name.
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Jeremy Simington
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Joined: 10 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 687
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| Posted: 08 January 2015 at 5:12pm | IP Logged | 8
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Pictures of crowds mourning and supporting the Charlie Hebdo victims.
I found this one particularly moving.
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Christophe Malgrain
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Joined: 22 August 2006
Location: France
Posts: 232
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| Posted: 09 January 2015 at 3:07am | IP Logged | 9
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Carmen, I remember reading an issue of Time in the 90's about the "browning of America", which said that whites will become a minority around 2050 and that there were secret camps in forests where supremacists were training for the "Armaggedon War". Here in Europe, we haven't heard about the KKK on the news in years. Is it still active ?
Edited by Christophe Malgrain on 09 January 2015 at 3:08am
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Carmen Bernardo
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Location: United States
Posts: 3666
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| Posted: 09 January 2015 at 5:19am | IP Logged | 10
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There are a number of AM radio talk show hosts who proclaim that whites are basically allowing themselves to be outpaced in the birth rates, and that something like the "browning" (Islamicisation) is happening in Europe. As far as I know, we've been keeping a pretty tight lid on the militants on the Right ever since the Oklahoma City bombing of 1995. Most of the crazies are now anarchists.
This doesn't really ease my concerns about it all getting out of control. The apocalyptic tone taken up by the talk shows has inspired some people to take up a "prepper" attitude (basically become Survivalists) and stock up on arms, food supplies and essentially barricade themselves against the predicted breakdown of society. I think it a very dangerous attitude that'll work only to make said prediction come true.
It doesn't mean that I see no problem on the horizon. As the attack on Charlie Hebdo shows us, we have no monopoly on psychopathic militancy. The trick is to identify the militants before they can act to do mass murder and mayhem, and convince their communities to assist us before they get caught up in the crossfire of an unintended religious (and racial or political) civil war that could result.
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Leigh DJ Hunt
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Joined: 20 February 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1570
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| Posted: 09 January 2015 at 6:05am | IP Logged | 11
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A question for you, Christophe...or anyone really. What is it about the practice of Islam in Europe that leads to such insular societies, and so much tension with non-muslims? Here in North America, Muslims are our friends and neighbors, or coworkers and in-laws. By and large, they love and cherish western values and cherish their right to practice their religion as they choose.
Why do things seem so different, at least from my perspective, in Europe? ------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------- I'm not sure any country France included can be generalised about like this. Here in the UK, I'd say mostly things are the same as you've said they are in the US but I can only base that on my circumstances. One of my best friends at work for instance is proudly Muslim. I'm sure more Muslims are integrated fully than aren't but those ones don't make the news of course.
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Stéphane Garrelie
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Joined: 05 August 2005
Location: France
Posts: 4226
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| Posted: 09 January 2015 at 7:10am | IP Logged | 12
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A quick answer on my phone:We condider that religion, any religion, is a private matter to pratice at home and at church ( or temple, mosquee, etc...) and in no way something to show in public life like your job or in politics.
And for Charlie Hebdo, they were h atheists and anticlerical. They attacked any and all religions that broke that rule.
So they certainly would laugh if they could at the idea thatvyedterday the belld of Notre-Dame rang for them, that there were masses, told for them, and that dome of their targets
Edited by Stéphane Garrelie on 09 January 2015 at 7:12am
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