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Jeremy Simington
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| Posted: 14 January 2015 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | 1
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EDDIE AVILA: Why isn't domestic terrorism perpetrated by Christian fundamentalists in the US promoted as much in the media?
Examples, please, as well as number of deaths caused.
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Robbie Parry
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| Posted: 14 January 2015 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | 2
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I've read through all this topic. Hard to know what to add, but I did find something disturbing on social media.
It's no-one famous, but one Muslim said that Muslims love the Prophet more than their own families. I've heard Christians say similar things about Jesus. That is worrying.
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Steve De Young
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| Posted: 14 January 2015 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | 3
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Yeah, I'm sick and tired of constantly reading all these news stories about Buddhists, Hasidic Jews, and Quakers beheading women and children.
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Eddie Avila
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| Posted: 14 January 2015 at 5:04pm | IP Logged | 4
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Jeremy, the lack of those statistics speaks volumes which support my point. Need I add anything to your astute observations?
OK, I will. One of the leaders of the political party running congress proudly proclaims himself to be David Duke without the baggage.
Willful ignorance is still ignorance.
The idea of black on black violence somehow diminishing terrorism against blacks is about as clever as saying that all the gun deaths in the US make terrorism irrelevant.
Also, quoting Allen West is not going to help you win any debates.
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Eddie Avila
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| Posted: 14 January 2015 at 5:10pm | IP Logged | 5
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I will guarantee you, Jeremy, that more Americans have been killed by white Christian terrorists than by Islamic fundamentalists to a degree of at least ten. If you include blacks in America before the Civil War, I'd add another degree of magnitude at least.
Burying your head in the sand, or anywhere else, isn't going to serve you well in making any point to counter.
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Joe Zhang
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| Posted: 14 January 2015 at 6:08pm | IP Logged | 6
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I can criticize the Bible. Even burn a copy. Christians will be offended but they won't go out and kill me. Now if I tried the same stunt with a Koran ...
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Jeremy Simington
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| Posted: 14 January 2015 at 7:02pm | IP Logged | 7
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Eddie, I don't understand what game you're playing here, but you're bordering on trolling. First, I wasn't quoting Allen West, I was presenting a Politifact article. Politifact is a respected, objective fact-checking source. Allen West is a tool. Second, I don't understand what Steve Scalise (the Republican pol you refer to) has to do with this conversation other than his tangential connection to David Duke and the KKK, but he's also a tool. Again, no one here is supporting the KKK or trying to connect black-on-black violence to terrorism. Finally, you again present your beliefs as facts: "I will guarantee you, Jeremy, that more Americans have been killed by white Christian terrorists than by Islamic fundamentalists to a degree of at least ten." What facts do you have to back up this assertion? Perhaps I haven't been clear. I am certain that white Christians have committed despicable acts of violence and killed large numbers of people. It's horrifying and no one is arguing otherwise. However, once we step into the realm of comparing horrors, we must rely on facts, otherwise how are we to know the truth? Again, even one murder is deplorable, but to suggest that one murder is the same as 100 or 1000 is debatable. And we can't even begin that debate if one person is asserting that the one murder was actually 10,000 but provides no facts to back that up.
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Jose Sarduy
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| Posted: 14 January 2015 at 9:01pm | IP Logged | 8
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Of course the KKK is an terrorist group nobody here is saying they aren’t.
But the KKKs numbers, membership and reign of terror has diminished greatly.
Just read up on American history.
Now I’m not saying the KKK and racism is dead, but you won’t be seeing any remakes of Birth Of Nation any time soon, thank goodness for that.
I saw documentary on the KKK years ago and some of the reasons they citied the weakening of the KKK are: more diversity in schools and states, laws passed to protect minorities and efforts by the FBI. The FBI infiltrated, spied on and used every tactic necessary to beat down the KKK. The FBI probably broke the law many times and fought fire with fire to combat the KKK, I for one, I’m glade they did!
They did what it took to save lives.
There is one thing I’ve noticed about poor countries, is that they are ruled by religious laws, oppressing gays, females, freedom of speech etc.. and some of the more prosperous economies have separation of church and state, were laws can be amended.
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Eddie Avila
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| Posted: 14 January 2015 at 9:54pm | IP Logged | 9
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If you're going to equate al qaeda with Islam, then I'm going to equate the KKK with Christianity. It's that simple. Your simplistic representation is no better than mine. That's my point.
To me, it's obvious that the policies of David Duke, and hence the KKK, have become the mainstream of America's ascendent political party. That's why Scalise is relevant to the discussion.
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Joe Zhang
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| Posted: 14 January 2015 at 11:36pm | IP Logged | 10
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Eddie, I don't see how you can defend Islam by dragging Christianity into this. In his lifetime Mohammed waged war on competing tribes, executed prisoners, sold their families as slaves, kept his own slaves. He employed torture and assassination. While Christians and churches through history have done all of the above, they were following their own motivations, not Jesus' example. They had to point to other sources in the Bible, and/or pull something else out their ass to justify themselves.
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Eric Ladd
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| Posted: 15 January 2015 at 3:47am | IP Logged | 11
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Eddie, I thought the point you were trying to make revolved around the death toll from terrorist activity. Specifically, that deaths caused from Christian terrorists was much higher than the number of deaths from islamic terrorists.
I didn't realize that all you were trying to do was identify the KKK as a Christian terrorist group. You were very unclear about what you were trying to accomplish. I don't see where anyone is denying that fact. I agree with the assertion. What I disagree with is the relevance in today's world environment.
The KKK has not been seen committing any act of terrorism nor taking credit for any act of terrorism in quite some time. This entire thread is about the terrorist attack in Paris, not about a white supremacist organization. And if your dander got up about the lack of media coverage on KKK attacks can you point to some? Is the lack due to willfully ignoring them by the media or simply a lack of KKK attacks altogether? Conspiracy theories need not apply.
Edited by Eric Ladd on 15 January 2015 at 4:48am
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Koroush Ghazi
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| Posted: 15 January 2015 at 7:09am | IP Logged | 12
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Stephen Robinson has been making some insightful posts worth paying
attention to in this thread. All I want to add is that now is precisely the
worst time for the West to enter into the jingoistic "war against terror"
nonsense again. There can be no successful "war" against terrorism,
not in the way that the right wing reactionaries want. Much as I hate
Islam, if we harass ordinary Muslims we will only back them into a
corner, effectively proving what they've been told - that they are being
persecuted. This sense of injustice will lead more of them towards
being radicalized. There are too many of them, dispersed within all
strata of western society, to fight. So that's not the way to go.
I think this whole incident has already embarrassed many ordinary
Muslims and demonstrated to them that modern society has little
tolerance for 14th century barbarism. A combination of secular
education and inclusiveness should see more young men and women
either abandon religious nonsense altogether, or at least practice it
more pragmatically.
Incidentally, I've read both the Koran and the Bible. It was a long time
ago when I was in my teens, but I remember several things: the striking
similarity between the two books (the Koran contains a lot of Bible
stories); the fact that in both books God comes across alternatively as a
vain, angry King and a kindly father; and finally, that both books contain
many contradictory and/or confusing passages. The point being that
both books are wide open to interpretation.
Christians went through the barbaric stage a while ago, and as western
culture became more civilized, stable and affluent, the clergy realized
that you catch more flies with honey in such an environment. With the
Middle East in geopolitical turmoil, the Muslim clergy worked out the
opposite - that they gain more converts by preaching violence and
aggressive expansion. The same interpretation of the Bible used by the
Church to spur men on to wage the Crusades.
So it bugs me when we get Christians openly gloating and warning us
of the dangers of Islam. When your own brand of stupidity has caused
countless deaths and much unnecessary suffering in human history,
you don't get to issue hypocritical warnings. The real warning is that as
the human race evolves, we need to rid ourselves of religious dogma -
of all persuasions - period.
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