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Mike Murray
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 530
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| Posted: 10 January 2015 at 10:04am | IP Logged | 1
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Jeremy, I like your idea of asking someone who lives there. I've found every news source to be biased. Sometimes overtly, in the way they present things. Usually by omission, which stories they push and which they completely ignore.
Edited by Mike Murray on 10 January 2015 at 10:05am
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Christophe Malgrain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2006
Location: France
Posts: 232
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| Posted: 10 January 2015 at 10:35am | IP Logged | 2
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The no-go zones do exist. I don't know how many, but there are areas where the police no longer go because it's too dangerous for them. Republican law doesn't apply there. Of course, a lot of people say that the army should be sent there, but the risk of nationwide riots and civil war is too high.
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Christophe Malgrain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2006
Location: France
Posts: 232
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| Posted: 10 January 2015 at 10:41am | IP Logged | 3
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The atmosphere is really weird at the moment. Thousands of people have marched in various cities today, and tomorrow there will be a huge march in Paris. Hope nothing bad happens.
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Lionel Faure
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: France
Posts: 378
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| Posted: 11 January 2015 at 3:08am | IP Logged | 4
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Many think here in France that these attacks are our own 911 (not by the number of the victims but for the change in mindset towards the terrorist threat). Something unexpected is happening on a huge scale across the whole country and hopefully beyond: French people is standing united in the rejection of terrorism and intolerence. A lot of French muslims who had kept silent up until now are joining the movement to finaly step in and reject those new nazis. The terrorists would want us to reject all muslims so they could keep telling them "see how non-muslim opress muslims, so as muslims you have to be with us and make guerrilla to non-muslims". It is their strategy to grow and take power and impose their sick views first upon all muslims then as they wish upon the whole world. But fortunately their inhumanity starts to repell the majority of those muslims they try to manipulate by using their muslim origin and identity. In Egypt and some other muslim countries a majority of muslims reject them already. They are losing and that's why they try to hit harder and harder, but the more horrific and inhuman their actions, the more they are losing. I didn't expect (although I wished for it) that all people in France of all ages, all origins, all political views, all religions, all skin colors are uniting and standing together.
Edited by Lionel Faure on 11 January 2015 at 4:46am
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Carmen Bernardo
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 3666
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| Posted: 11 January 2015 at 5:52am | IP Logged | 5
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I am of the mind, and there are even some Right-wing talk show hosts who would agree, that not all Muslims are terrorists. Look at how Sharia law is applied to them in their homelands. Many of these people don't want to see their daughters subjected to rape and then persecuted because of some obscene requirement for four male eyewitnesses (as if the rapist would want his act on public display), be subjected to lopsided standards that favor the leading tribes over the rest of the people, and may actually see something positive in having peaceful relations with non-believers who aren't coming in to convert them and their relations from Islam. Many just don't like the idea of living under dictatorships which use Islam and Sharia law as a means of oppressing them and taking over their lives to make them into serfs.
If this event triggers something like a sea change in the perceptions of the Muslim community of Europe about their role in society so that they can turn on the terrorists in their midst, much as the actions of men like Al Capone and other Mafia leaders did for the Italian communities, then it will be for the best. My hope is that the changes begin occurring over here in the States, where it seems that political factions in our own mass media, academia and government offices are eagerly playing up the mutual xenophobia and extremist rhetoric to create another "crisis" through which they can increase their own power.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 11 January 2015 at 6:54am | IP Logged | 6
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What the terrorists did to Charlie Hedbo would not have happened in Saudi Arabia. The government would have jailed the cartoonists, put them through a religious court, and executed them.
This is the kind of state religion that Saudi Arabia promotes, presumably through lavishly funded channels. I don't believe it's a coincidence ISIS, Al Queda are on the same page as Saudi Arabia on what version of Islamic world they want to see. And as long as the rest of the world pumps up on gas, Saudi Arabia will keep doing what they're doing.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 11 January 2015 at 6:57am
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Stephen Robinson
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 11 January 2015 at 1:59pm | IP Logged | 7
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It's interesting when you see even American right-wing
politicians and pundits saying they "stand with France."
Yes, there is a perceived common enemy (radical Islam)
but much of France's secular tradition and many of its
policies (banning the wearing of religious apparel in
schools) would be derided as "hostile" to religion by
these same right-wingers.
After all, American politicians have spoken of a war on
"Christmas" or an attack on "religious liberty" because
of laws forbidding Christians to discriminate against
gays and so on.
I'm an atheist, so I'm more inclined to *prefer*
France's approach to religion than America's. France is
a country that would find it odd that the president or
any politician would end a speech with "God bless
America" or "God bless the United States."
Of course, if I lived in France, I'd probably be
considered far more moderate than I am viewed here -- I
don't have an issue with kids wearing yarmulkes to
school after all.
Anyway, two major elements -- France's secular tradition
and the fact that the more "French" you are culturally,
the better chance you have to succeed there -- that to
me imply that even moderate Muslims will have a problem
assimilating in France. I think this will create more
tension over time that I don't see dissipating. And
radical Islamists will always see France as a prime spot
to stick dirty fingers into the open wound. I am
curious, though not optimistic, about how things will
turn out.
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Christophe Malgrain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2006
Location: France
Posts: 232
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| Posted: 11 January 2015 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | 8
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You're right, Stephen, the American president having to swear on the Bible even if he would secretly rather not, is someting weird to us. During presidential campaigns here, the candidates don't have to say if they are believers or not. Our current president, François Hollande, is an atheist and it's no big deal to most of us.
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Christophe Malgrain
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Joined: 22 August 2006
Location: France
Posts: 232
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| Posted: 11 January 2015 at 3:16pm | IP Logged | 9
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Probably about 4 million people in French marches today, half of them in Paris. People are feeling better, as whites, blacks, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Atheists, left-wingers and right-wingers gathered in peace. A general feeling of national union. Very powerful.
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Christophe Malgrain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2006
Location: France
Posts: 232
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| Posted: 11 January 2015 at 3:30pm | IP Logged | 10
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We hear that despite the huge support from the American people, some of you think the Charlie cartoonists were racists. Not at all, and rather the contrary. I'm sorry for not knowing how to post links on this forum, but this page will help you understand who they were. Satire from another culture is not always easy to understand.
http://67-tardis-street.tumblr.com/post/107589955860/dear-us -followers
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Carmen Bernardo
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 3666
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| Posted: 11 January 2015 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | 11
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As I said, decent, law-abiding citizens of a country with no desire for conflict that would result in their livelihoods being destroyed, their families ruined...
The terrorists came from families and communities that had already made up their minds to be a gang of mass murderers. They had even gone abroad to Yemen to get their training. We're going to see years of fallout from this.
What I'm hoping is that the rallies show that French citizens of all stripes are setting aside their differences to start dealing with the problem.
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 11 January 2015 at 5:24pm | IP Logged | 12
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You're right, Stephen, the American president having to swear on the
Bible even if he would secretly rather not, is someting weird to us.
During presidential campaigns here, the candidates don't have to say if
they are believers or not. Our current president, François Hollande, is
an atheist and it's no big deal to most of us.
****
SER: I appreciate your insight, Christophe. I think for a lot of Americans
living here we don't fully appreciate how overtly religious the country is.
This is relevant when there is the risk of a "religious" war. The U.S.
cannot claim to have not declared a side.
An atheist could never be elected president. I think that's a certainty
that won't change for a while. If an avowed Christian is considered
"hostile" to religion here, who knows how fhey'd respond to an atheist.
That context is important because I think American liberals view a
secular leftists French publication as battling against the status quo,
which would be the case here. But in France, would it be fair to say that
secularism is more the status quo than in the U.S.?
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Topic Closed)
