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Gundars Berzins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 March 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1563
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| Posted: 15 October 2014 at 6:48am | IP Logged | 1
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"hear, hear!"
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Marc Cheek
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 1785
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| Posted: 15 October 2014 at 7:23am | IP Logged | 2
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Hey JB, if Marvel won't do the FF, you should !
••
If it could be made to happen. . . .
**
Would that it could...
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Brian J Nelson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 August 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 365
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| Posted: 15 October 2014 at 7:29am | IP Logged | 3
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"This is post modernism thinking at its worst. The belief that everyone's thoughts and opinions carry equal weight, because to them, they are correct, is idiotic. Wrong is still wrong. A cheeseburger is the name of a specific type of food. There are variations but each of these contain a basic set of ingredients. Chicken curry, just because you describe it as a cheeseburger, does not become a cheeseburger. It remains chicken curry."
But you are ignoring your own point about variations. If you go to Pink's in LA and order a cheeseburger, it automatically comes with chili unless you order otherwise. There is a local place that if you order a cheeseburger, it comes with a fried egg automatically. its on the menu that way, so shouldn't be a surprise. You may be used to cheeseburgers with a sesame seed bun and American cheese cooked well with pickles, onions, ketchup and mustard. And then you may go into a place and order a cheeseburger and it automatically comes back with cheddar or swiss, no pickles but lettuce and tomato and mayo! I hate mayo. Really, really hate it. But there are a lot of places that put it on. And its right there in the description. So if I order a burger, and I get a burger and it has mayo on it, should I be mad? In their mind, they are still giving me a cheeseburger, but in my mind, it is ruined.
The belief that everyone's thought's and opinions carry equal weight when it comes to subjectivity is hardly wrong. It isn't right either. it just is. You can't point to this movie and say it is wrong because it is different than X, because there have been so many published versions of X that are different than one another. All you can do is decide if X is for you or not.
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Brian J Nelson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 August 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 365
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| Posted: 15 October 2014 at 7:30am | IP Logged | 4
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"Eh. "Not Brand Echh" did it better."
Because of parody laws, I wonder if Marvel could do a Fantastical Four movie. I would absolutely go see it!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133328
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| Posted: 15 October 2014 at 7:35am | IP Logged | 5
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Because of parody laws, I wonder if Marvel could do a Fantastical Four movie. I would absolutely go see it!•• Be careful what you wish for! With the Adam West BATMAN series about to be released on home video, I am bracing for a tsunami of superhero "parodies" from ever-original Hollywood.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133328
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| Posted: 15 October 2014 at 7:36am | IP Logged | 6
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But you are ignoring your own point about variations. If you go to Pink's in LA and order a cheeseburger, it automatically comes with chili unless you order otherwise. There is a local place that if you order a cheeseburger, it comes with a fried egg automatically. its on the menu that way, so shouldn't be a surprise. You may be used to cheeseburgers with a sesame seed bun and American cheese cooked well with pickles, onions, ketchup and mustard. And then you may go into a place and order a cheeseburger and it automatically comes back with cheddar or swiss, no pickles but lettuce and tomato and mayo! I hate mayo. Really, really hate it. But there are a lot of places that put it on. And its right there in the description. So if I order a burger, and I get a burger and it has mayo on it, should I be mad? In their mind, they are still giving me a cheeseburger, but in my mind, it is ruined. •• In your day to day life, do you ALWAYS work this hard to miss the point?
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Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1954
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| Posted: 15 October 2014 at 7:55am | IP Logged | 7
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I wonder if IDW could put out a JB artist's edition of Fantastic Four pages... that just so happen to be new FF stories about the real FF.
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Brian J Nelson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 August 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 365
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| Posted: 15 October 2014 at 7:55am | IP Logged | 8
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The point I caught is that some people feel this is not a FF movie and are angry about it. The other point I saw is that they are comparing this movie to ordering a burger and being surprised and upset when they get something that is not what is ordered. The analogy used a bit of hyperbole that I felt was out of whack, so I brought the comparison back to the point. The point I was addressing was that people who do like this movie must not like the Fantastic Four.
My point is that the public has not ordered this movie. Additionally, my point is that this movie is being very adequately described as what it is. This movie is not playing a switcheroo. It doesn't interest me. But, as my final point, it may interest some. Good for them if it does.
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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 15 October 2014 at 11:11am | IP Logged | 9
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I think the crux of the matter is that the movie is called 'Fantastic Four', but the creative team seem desperate to stray (distort?) from the source material as far as possible. And 'gloat' about it (my word).
The wacky marketing ('adequately describing' how different it is from the 'real' FF) just seems to be an attempt to stir 'controversy' in the name of ticket sales. Which I doubt will work with the average movie-goer just looking for an entertaining comic book flick.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7787
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| Posted: 15 October 2014 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | 10
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Brian, I wasn't using hyperbole, I was trying to clearly show that a cheeseburger can have variations but there are limits at which point it stops being a cheeseburger.
Yes, variations exist. But there are some core ingredients. A bun, meat and cheese. No cheese and it is a hamburger. No bun and it is ham and cheese. No meat and it is a cheese sandwich.
The Fantastic Four can consist of four people that are usually Reed, Ben, Sue and Johnny. At times, one or more of those have been absent and replaced by someone else, say She Hulk. However, Johnny is a white person who is the biological brother of Sue. Sue is not the adopted sister of a black Johnny.
If a director / writer feels the need to examine the relationship between adopted siblings of different race, feel free. I applaud you. Just don't do it in a Fantastic Four movie. The Fantastic Four are not about that type of thing. If you can't see that then I am at a loss.
I'm sorry if this comes across as a personal comment aimed at you, it isn't. I just can't understand why anyone who loves or has loved the Fantastic Four would want to defend what is happening. The same way I couldn't see how anyone who loved the Avengers could defend the Ultimates (see my previous post in this thread).
None of this honours the original. All it does is say 'I have a better idea that I am going to over right your idea with. You OK with that?'
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Brad Krawchuk
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 5819
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| Posted: 15 October 2014 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | 11
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James Woodcock is apparently a pseudonym for Professor X, because he read my mind and posted my thoughts.
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2366
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| Posted: 15 October 2014 at 4:01pm | IP Logged | 12
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I watched THE FLASH last night, an episode written by Geoff Johns. (SPOILERS AHEAD if you plan to watch the episode.) In it, they introduced Simon Stagg and I thought "Oh cool, they're setting up Metamorpho!" But "Mr. Java" as an African-American man who was very modern and he actually hired the hitman to kill his boss. And Stagg and Java both die.
So, what was the point? Why even bring in those characters? It could have been ANY rich businessman and his traitorous bodyguard. Who was this supposed to satisfy? Fans would hate that they were tricked and non-fans would not even know who Stagg and Java were supposed to be.
I put this in this thread because it's the same issue. Why do a "Fantastic Four" movie where you completely change everything but the names. Who is that supposed to satisfy?
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Topic Closed)
