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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
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Posted: 04 September 2014 at 3:29pm | IP Logged | 1
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. The fake Aunt May was a "genetically-altered actress"? Peter really couldn't tell? C'mon.••• The lead character is a guy who got his genes altered by an accidental bite from a radioactive spider, but you won't buy some deliberate genetic manipulations?
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5835
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Posted: 04 September 2014 at 4:25pm | IP Logged | 2
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JASON: The fake Aunt May was a "genetically-altered actress"? Peter really couldn't tell? C'mon.
****
SER: Why would he? I know that it's hip to write characters as "genre savvy" -- aware of every conceit within their own medium ("evil twins," "body swaps" and so forth) but such "savviness" is actually *less* realistic.
The "suspension of disbelief" is really the technology capable of body swapping or "genetic manipulation." Not that implausible within the world of Marvel. Once you accept that, the rest is not that huge a leap. If your spouse came home in a bad mood and behaving oddly, you wouldn't immediately think, "Someone has swapped bodies with her!" and if your elderly aunt forgot where she normally kept the pots and pans, you wouldn't think it's some grand scheme by our arch enemy, you'd just think it's senility.
The balance, for me, works better when despite the fact that the Avengers and Fantastic Four exist in New York, everyone essentially behaves like normal people in a world not that different from ours. This is why it bugged me when a comic book issue had people blowing off the death of Nick Fury as "one of those things" and "of course he'll come back." The characters can't become "genre savvy" or they lose their connection to "us."
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Andrew W. Farago Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4079
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Posted: 04 September 2014 at 4:33pm | IP Logged | 3
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Was Chapter One ever presented--from editorial, at any rate--as anything other than the official new continuity? Elements of that showed up in Amazing right away, from the new costumes for classic villains to the new, more explosive combined origin of Spidey and Doctor Octopus.
The rolling, in-continuity soft reboot is something that's been done a lot since, especially in the final pre-New 52 years of DC, but I don't think we'd really seen it before at Marvel, which seems to have caused a lot of the backlash against that era.
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5835
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Posted: 04 September 2014 at 4:49pm | IP Logged | 4
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JB: It was an odd time, working on those issues. The usual combination of fun and frustration. Fun to be working with Howard, of course. I'd originally come aboard with the understanding that I would be writing and drawing AMAZING, and Howard and I would concentrate on different aspects of Parker's life, so the parallel series would each have their own "voice." At very nearly the last minute, editor Ralph Macchio called to tell me they'd decided they wanted the books to be as much ALIKE as possible, so same writer, same inker.
I was okay with this, but I did ask that we keep the "different aspects" angle. I was worried that the books might morph into essentially a biweekly, and I'd end up drawing a lot of Part Ones. Unfortunately, that's exactly what did happen. Looking back, it's hard to imagine otherwise, whoever the writer might have been.
SER: I recall when that started happening to the Superman titles shortly after you left. It just seems to cater to the obsessed fan, who of course is reading both books. As a kid, I'd sometimes have to choose which Batman, Superman, or Spider-Man title I'd read each month -- my allowance was limited and I liked diversity. Reading a lot of part ones or part twos would have frustrated me after a while.
Different "themes" for different titles seemed to justify their existence: PETER PARKER focused more on his personal life. AMAZING SPIDER-MAN was where you'd expect him to fight the "big guns." Soon titles were out just because "the market would bear them" or simply to give a big name his own book. It was a shame.
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Jason Schulman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2473
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Posted: 04 September 2014 at 5:32pm | IP Logged | 5
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The lead character is a guy who got his genes altered by an accidental bite from a radioactive spider, but you won't buy some deliberate genetic manipulations?
***
I find it hard to buy that Peter, having known May all his life, wouldn't notice that May wasn't May. Or that anyone very close to May wouldn't notice.
Frankly it would've been more believable if "May" had turned out to be a Skrull, not that there would've been any good reason for a Skrull to impersonate her. And that would've been stretch too. When would anyone have had the opportunity to study May well enough to convincingly imitate her when the only time the switch could have been made was when she was in a coma?
I can't remember if it was ever explained why no normal, non-superhuman person who knew May ever asked Peter, or May, or anyone why she was kidnapped in the first place. Or if they did, what the answer was.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
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Posted: 04 September 2014 at 5:45pm | IP Logged | 6
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I find it hard to buy that Peter, having known May all his life, wouldn't notice that May wasn't May. Or that anyone very close to May wouldn't notice. ••• Superheroes spend lots of time hanging out with people who know their alter-egos well. Yet somehow hardly anyone recognizes them. Such things are staples of the form. Might as well say you don't accept the magic in Harry Potter novels. +++++ Frankly it would've been more believable if "May" had turned out to be a Skrull.... ••• Are you reading what you're writing?
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Brian Skelley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 February 2012 Location: United States Posts: 231
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Posted: 04 September 2014 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | 7
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John Byrne wrote:
The real downside in all of it, tho, was the more moronic levels of fandom electing ME as the villain of the piece. I had, after all, made it conditional to my doing the book that Aunt May be brought back, and baby May be killed. (Neither of those were true.) |
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Did you want her brought back? I remember hearing she was returning at the time and feeling really disappointed as I thought her end in ASM 400 was very moving. Looking back on it now I still find the piece moving, but wondered why I thought she'd ever remain in the ground. Such is way of serialized comics, what was new will be returned into what was.
I apologize if this is another one of those questions you've answered a thousand times, I couldn't find it in the FAQ or when I searched. It could be a case of my search skills lacking at the moment.
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Jason Schulman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2473
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Posted: 04 September 2014 at 5:55pm | IP Logged | 8
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Superheroes spend lots of time hanging out with people who know their alter-egos well. Yet somehow hardly anyone recognizes them. Such things are staples of the form. Might as well say you don't accept the magic in Harry Potter novels.
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But May isn't a superhero. No mask. Not even Clark Kent Glasses!
And I didn't say that putting a Skrull in that story would've been a good idea. I'm saying that the genetically-altered-actress bit was even worse! At least Skrulls are shape-shifters!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
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Posted: 04 September 2014 at 8:16pm | IP Logged | 9
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Did you want her brought back? I remember hearing she was returning at the time and feeling really disappointed as I thought her end in ASM 400 was very moving. Looking back on it now I still find the piece moving, but wondered why I thought she'd ever remain in the ground. Such is way of serialized comics, what was new will be returned into what was.••• Of many dumb things Marvels has done over the years, I thought killing May was one of the dumbest. Being assured that she was being brought back was one of the things that convinced me to accept the assignment.
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5835
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Posted: 04 September 2014 at 8:55pm | IP Logged | 10
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JASON: I can't remember if it was ever explained why no normal, non-superhuman person who knew May ever asked Peter, or May, or anyone why she was kidnapped in the first place.
SER: People are kidnapped in the real world. Sometimes for no motive at all. Maybe it was Spider-Man who was upset over Peter Parker taking photos of him. That was probably Jonah's story.
JASON: And I didn't say that putting a Skrull in that story would've been a good idea. I'm saying that the genetically-altered-actress bit was even worse! At least Skrulls are shape-shifters!
SER: My understanding is that you objected to May Parker's friends and family not discovering she was a "fake." I'd think that a professional actor, if adequately prepared, would do a better job of fooling other human beings than an alien being.
Whenever the swap occurred, Peter wasn't living with May. He didn't see her on a daily basis. It's actually not unlike the situation with many elderly relatives. Even if he noticed that she seemed "off," he would probably not bring it up because he might assume it's general decline. The same would go for her friends.
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5835
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Posted: 04 September 2014 at 9:05pm | IP Logged | 11
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JB: Of many dumb things Marvels has done over the years, I thought killing May was one of the dumbest.
SER: There was a period around the time of Aunt May's "death" when you'd often see Peter Parker hanging out in his apartment talking to MJ while sticking to the wall in his everyday clothes. It occurred to me that the series had effectively written out the people around whom Peter had to act "normal."
This happens a lot in comics and genre television. Even BUFFY -- after killing their own "Aunt May"* -- got to a point where everyone knew about the slayer and vampires. There were rarely moments of "normality" to contrast against the fantastic.
This is perhaps a subtle resistance to the secret identity, but it ruins the dramatic tension of a hero balancing two lives.
Aunt May was also an ongoing reminder of Spider-Man's biggest failure. Why lose that? Once Peter moved out of Aunt May's house, she doesn't even have to be an ongoing character.
Of course, JMS *had* to reveal Spider-Man's identity to Aunt May, removing her as a "normal" character -- she even started hanging out at Avengers mansion. And of course, she embraced Peter as Spider-Man and forgave him for allowing the burglar to get away.
Good God.
*Regarding BUFFY, TV series use real people who age; actors move on to other projects. This makes it necessary to alter the status quo -- even on that works. But Aunt May never had to or has to die.
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Jason Schulman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2473
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Posted: 04 September 2014 at 9:32pm | IP Logged | 12
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SER: People are kidnapped in the real world. Sometimes for no motive at all. Maybe it was Spider-Man who was upset over Peter Parker taking photos of him. That was probably Jonah's story
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Does anyone remember if it was publicly revealed that May was kidnapped by the Green Goblin? Because THAT would need some explaining. ("Why would the villain who killed Gwen Stacy kidnap May Parker? Who connects those two people?...Oh my god, PETER PARKER IS SPIDER-MAN!!")
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