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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4882
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| Posted: 15 August 2014 at 9:17pm | IP Logged | 1
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I hear you Wallace, John Sr. is my favorite Silver Age artist.
Hard to believe it's been 40 years since he was a regular artist or inker on Spider-Man.
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2366
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| Posted: 16 August 2014 at 1:14am | IP Logged | 2
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That collar will just never look right. Even the MAN OF STEEL movie, for all its flaws, knew enough to give Superman a bare neck!
This design might be good for a Superboy who spent all his time in the LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES time.
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Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
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| Posted: 16 August 2014 at 9:09am | IP Logged | 3
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On his Absorbascon blog, Scipio makes the argument that the time for circus-suited strongmen has passed. Circus costumes no longer have a toe-hold on the public consciousness, he says, and he puts forth the idea that super-heroes today are professionals and should appear so. Professional men wear collars to work. He therefore likes the new look.
I believe he's turned another awkward handspring to make a point since super-heroics and nine-to-five office work under a dress code are hardly the same affair. Should we also be checking to ensure that they all have on dark socks and shiny shoes?
Despite its origins under the big top, Superman's costume really was like nothing else in everyday reality and made its own rules, one of which was that it looked comfortable and provided its Kryptonian wearer with a maximum of mobility. The new suit conversely looks pinched and confining. Skiers, snowboarders, speed-skaters, and all such notwithstanding, the new costume doesn't look athletic. It very much looks overtly designed rather than something the character would actually wear.
Being invulnerable, Superman of course doesn't feel discomfort, so I guess he could patrol Metropolis in a corset and heels and still get by. But it would hardly be the character at his best and what we're getting now isn't either.
A fannish obeservation: The Jim Lee/Nu52 Superman looks like a gaunt version of Mon-El. I don't see any "Superman" in there at all. And the super-shiny costume is a poorly-done revamp of Cpt. Marvel Jr's outfit rather than Superman's.
Edited by Brian Hague on 16 August 2014 at 9:10am
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Roy Johnson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 1323
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| Posted: 16 August 2014 at 9:18am | IP Logged | 4
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The nu52 costume is just poorly designed, it's as simple as that. The classic Superman costume is, well, classic.
I give it ... 4 more years.
Edited by Roy Johnson on 16 August 2014 at 10:53am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133326
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| Posted: 16 August 2014 at 4:27pm | IP Logged | 5
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On his Absorbascon blog, Scipio makes the argument that the time for circus-suited strongmen has passed. Circus costumes no longer have a toe-hold on the public consciousness, he says, and he puts forth the idea that super-heroes today are professionals and should appear so. Professional men wear collars to work. He therefore likes the new look. Superhero costumes were indeed inspired by those worn by circus strongmen and high wire performers -- and skaters for the girls -- but they left that behind a long, long time ago. Superheroes are themselves the "toe-hold." Joe Public sees a guy in tights and a cape, he thinks "superhero," not "circus." "Professional men wear collars to work" may be one of the silliest things I've read. I sure hope he was being "satirical."
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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4830
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| Posted: 16 August 2014 at 7:02pm | IP Logged | 6
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Mr. Byrne had previously made note of a time when Marvel had almost come to own the DC heroes
JB wrote: I think you are referencing my referencing one of Shooter's pet fantasies. I don't recall a time when the "almost" got any closer than that! ******* Read Shooter's blog post regarding WB offering the licensing rights to DC characters to Marvel Comics back in 1984. Seems the "big suits" at Marvel didn't share Shooter's enthusiasm toward licensing DC properties that weren't selling as well as Marvel's.... but it didn't stop Shooter from drafting up a pitch including creative teams for certain titles.
Shooter states that JB even drew a cover for Superman that had the tagline "First MARVEL Issue!" - which is still in his possession.
I've never heard of this OR your comments on the story.... did you in fact draw this cover and was it ever shown here?
-C!
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Tim Cousar
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1666
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| Posted: 17 August 2014 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | 7
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"Professional men wear collars to work"*********** I've had in mind that most writers or cartoonists go into their line of work because they don't want to have to wear high collars and ties every day to work. I suppose Scipio puts on a suit and tie to work on his blog.
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Paul Kimball
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2202
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| Posted: 17 August 2014 at 6:17pm | IP Logged | 8
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I like the new costume. I like the old one as well.
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Francesco Vanagolli
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005
Location: Italy
Posts: 3130
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| Posted: 18 August 2014 at 3:08am | IP Logged | 9
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Romita drawn the classic boots, so the new costume seems even more wronger than usual.
Oh, DC wanted to change Superman's costume. Fine. They own the character, they can do whatever they want. You want to mess with a classic, do it. But please, at least find something better!
I still can't get used to that costume... and, I suppose, the artists feel the same, if they try to "adjust" it. It looks less metallic than in the early months of the New52 relaunch.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133326
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| Posted: 18 August 2014 at 9:40am | IP Logged | 10
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Shooter states that JB even drew a cover for Superman that had the tagline "First MARVEL Issue!" - which is still in his possession.I've never heard of this OR your comments on the story.... did you in fact draw this cover and was it ever shown here? I don't recall drawing such a cover, tho it does sound like something I might have done -- as a JOKE. Sort of like this: 
One thing I recall from those days was a discussion in which someone brought up the notion that Marvel could not buy or license the DC characters as this would create a "monopoly." I pointed out that it would not, since other companies would still be publishing comic books, and one cannot legally (or illegally) monopolize a genre.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133326
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| Posted: 18 August 2014 at 9:44am | IP Logged | 11
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Another aspect of the mullet days was that it was just after Superman returned from the dead, right about the same time Clark reappeared after going "missing." Hmm. Superman now had long, flowing locks cascading down his neck, and oh, hey, Clark is now wearing a ponytail. Did Superman ever have long hair before? No, y'know, I don't think he did. Did Clark ever wear a ponytail before now? No, no... I don't believe he did... Huh. Imagine that. There was a truly bizarre moment, illustrating just how out of touch with reality DC had become, when one of the Superman writers informed me, after I asked how Superman and Clark could both have long hair, that Clark would pull his back into a ponytail. Problem solved! And some think the glasses are ridiculous!!
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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8120
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| Posted: 18 August 2014 at 12:42pm | IP Logged | 12
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Re: Iron Sis, had you already landed the IRON FIST gig by the time you drew
this?
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