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Clint Ludwick Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2007 Location: United States Posts: 1952
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Posted: 13 July 2014 at 12:24pm | IP Logged | 1
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Somebody who "fights" for a living...probably shouldn't have a lot of ear rings. :)
Edited by Clint Ludwick on 13 July 2014 at 12:25pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133334
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Posted: 13 July 2014 at 12:30pm | IP Logged | 2
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The next big DC mini-series, Donna Troy and Batgirl team-up to figure out "Who Is Barbara Gordon?" Commissioner Gordon's daughter? Niece? Gotham City head librarian, requiring a lengthy degree? Member of the House of Representatives, requiring her to be at least 35 years old*? Older, mentor figure to a raft of legacy Batgirls and teams of super agents or young, upscale neighborhood hipster with a "Veronica Mars, Girls" vibe? Perhaps the Dark Queen could simply have her step out of a magic Bat-Signal?•• Here we see an example of a staggeringly long shadow! When Frank was working on BATMAN: YEAR ONE, he told me about a joke he'd come up with, to have Lt. Gordon's wife pregnant, and then, oops! It turns out to be Barbara. Someone at DC (astonishingly) actually spoke up, and pointed out that this would mean Barbara was younger than Dick Grayson, so the joke was eliminated -- but the chronology remained broken, forcing Barbara to become Gordon's niece and "adopted" daughter -- and, later, his actually daughter, because Gordon had been boning his brother's wife. sigh
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Kip Lewis Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011 Posts: 2880
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Posted: 13 July 2014 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | 3
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Somebody who "fights" for a living...probably shouldn't have a lot of ear rings. :)
-------- You could probably say that about her long hair too. Isn't that why Frank Miller had another red head cut her long hair, i.e., Black Widow?
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5835
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Posted: 13 July 2014 at 1:24pm | IP Logged | 4
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JB: When Frank was working on BATMAN: YEAR ONE, he told me about a joke he'd come up with, to have Lt. Gordon's wife pregnant, and then, oops! It turns out to be Barbara.
Someone at DC (astonishingly) actually spoke up, and pointed out that this would mean Barbara was younger than Dick Grayson, so the joke was eliminated -- but the chronology remained broken, forcing Barbara to become Gordon's niece and "adopted" daughter -- and, later, his actually daughter, because Gordon had been boning his brother's wife.
sigh
SER: How did things get to a point by 1987 when DC would publish a comic when Jim Gordon, a longtime hero*, cheated on his wife with a coworker, which eventually opened the box to cheating with his brother's wife?
Did the creators really think that this was standard behavior for a lot of people? Or at least a "relatable" flaw? It certainly wasn't for my father.
What happened by 1987 that would make it so that a DC editor wouldn't just say "no way" to just a plot element?
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Glenn Brenner Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 December 2008 Posts: 353
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Posted: 13 July 2014 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | 5
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The Batgirl costume isn't terrible, but it looks like something out of KICK ASS, to me.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133334
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Posted: 13 July 2014 at 2:19pm | IP Logged | 6
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What happened by 1987 that would make it so that a DC editor wouldn't just say "no way" to just a plot element?•• If it had not already arrived, the tipping point was rapidly approaching -- that point at which the fans-turned-pro would completely overwhelm the Old Guard, and there would be, effectively, no one left with any kind of business sense. Long term thinking became next Tuesday. It was around this time I pitched my "Batman & Robin" series. I'd heard from a number of retailers across the country that the Tim Burton Batman movie had brought kids (with their parents) into their shops, seeking Batman material, and the parents immediately rejected what was available as inappropriate. Nothing there, then, for the "entry level" kids. My pitch was greeted with something not far from hoots of disdain. "Batman," I was told, in so many words, "is considered one of our ADULT characters." No, I tried to argue, Batman is being purchased by aging fanboys, but if you think a real grownup, with no prior interest, is suddenly going to start picking up Batman comics to read on the commuter train home --- well, you're out of touch. But that was beyond obvious by that point.
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Brian Floyd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 8593
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Posted: 13 July 2014 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | 7
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See Captain America #255, which JB worked on, for why the new mask design on that Batgirl costume is a bad idea: Someone hits her just right, or even just grabs at it, and that mask is coming off. Better have a domino mask on under it!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133334
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Posted: 13 July 2014 at 2:44pm | IP Logged | 8
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The Batgirl costume isn't terrible, but it looks like something out of KICK ASS, to me. •• Imitation is the sincerest form of copying.
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Thom Price Byrne Robotics Member
LHomme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7593
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Posted: 13 July 2014 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | 9
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The costume isn't terrible; at least it's recognizable if -- inevitably! -- overly busy. As seems to be so typical in comic books now, this seems like someone over-thought it without thinking it through.
She presumably would have had to die the various components to the same shades of purple and yellow, as well as create the mask and the cape, so why not just make the entire costume at that point?
And of course there's the muddle of "realism". She wears combat-style boots because it would presumably be impractical to fight crime in heels, but apparently no such problems exist with fighting crime in a cape or what would probably be a peripheral vision reducing mask/cowl. Either be realistic, or embrace the genre. Sheesh.
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5835
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Posted: 13 July 2014 at 3:55pm | IP Logged | 10
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JB: It was around this time I pitched my "Batman & Robin" series. I'd heard from a number of retailers across the country that the Tim Burton Batman movie had brought kids (with their parents) into their shops, seeking Batman material, and the parents immediately rejected what was available as inappropriate. Nothing there, then, for the "entry level" kids.
****
SER: I sometimes think the worst part of the long shadow cast by the 1960s Batman TV series is that it got so much *right* -- arguably everything right but the tone. So, grim and gritty and depressing in Batman is hailed as innovative and true to the character, even if everything else in the Burton or Nolan films are wrong.
The 1950s Superman series was played straight and even when the color seasons began to get less grounded and a bit sillier at times, the creators never found it funny, so unlike BATMAN, the "camp" is not intentional.
And because the Christopher Reeve film played it straight, I feel we can eventually get back to the real Superman on the screen. But my Batman -- not Miller's vision but the Dick Sprang, larger than life smiling adventurer -- will never appear in a movie in fear of being consider a version of Adam West.
It's a shame, because as I get older, I don't like action movies, per se -- not in the DIE HARD gritty mold, so the Nolan or Snyder films don't interest me. The kid in me who wants to be let out for a couple hours wants to see good guys doing the right thing for the right reasons. I want heroes and bright colors and earnestness.
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Bill Guerra Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 March 2012 Location: United States Posts: 1072
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Posted: 13 July 2014 at 4:12pm | IP Logged | 11
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I don't care for Batgirl's new costume or the way she looks like a teenager. It looks like I'll be dropping the book.
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Doug Centers Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 February 2014 Location: United States Posts: 5600
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Posted: 13 July 2014 at 6:32pm | IP Logged | 12
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Earrings - noZippers- no Combat Boots- no The rest of the design is ok.
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