Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 7 Next >>
Topic: New Gods & Earth 2 (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Brian O'Neill
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 November 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 1964
Posted: 21 June 2014 at 9:27am | IP Logged | 1  

Eric Jansen:
I had another solution for keeping the JSA older (but not ancient) AND keeping them tied to WW II (as well as coming of age in the 30's, retiring and having children in the 50's and 60's, etc.)--

Just establish that the parallel worlds are out of sync with one another and that Earth 2, at present, has not aged past the 70's (another era that's fun to play with).

That means that the Huntress is a young woman who's the daughter of Batman and Catwoman (as she should be), gray-haired Clark Kent is the editor-in-chief at the Daily Planet, and great characters like Jay Garrick/Flash and Alan Scott/Green Lantern are wise elder statesmen who sometimes travel to Earth One to visit with their younger namesakes. ("So, it's 2014 here, but only 1977 back where we came from. Weird. Oh well, let's fight the Shade and the Shadow Thief!")

I still find it mind-blowing that DC destroyed the multiverse because it was "too confusing" and then immediately started their ELSEWORLDS line!

The 'Elseworlds' stuff came later, in the '90s.
As for Earths 1 and 2 being 'out of synch', Denny O'Neil's run on JLA established that Earth-2 was an unspecified number of years behind Earth-1, due to a much slower rotation. In 1975, in their infamous guest-shot, Elliott Maggin and Cary Bates implied the gap between Earths was 15 years, with Navy jets and aircraft carriers being shown that were roughly 'Cuban Missile Crisis' vintage. Len Wein, and all other subsequent writers, ignored this idea.


Edited by Brian O'Neill on 21 June 2014 at 9:28am
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
Posted: 21 June 2014 at 10:43am | IP Logged | 2  

Guys, guys, guys!!! Some of you are BEING THE PROBLEM. You are thinking like anal retentive fanboys, instead of attacking this logically.

A new reader (remember them?) must be able to GET the concept -- any concept -- quickly and clearly. "Every issue it the first issue for somebody." And, seriously now, is there an explanation of the JSA ANY simpler than "they're set in the 1940s"?

No sliding scales, no "Infinity Formulas," no skewed temporal synchronicity. They're in the Past. A "fixed point" in the Past. Simple and easy!

Back to Top profile | search
 
Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
Posted: 21 June 2014 at 11:00am | IP Logged | 3  

I prefer they're "the heroes from twenty years ago." myself.  
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
Posted: 21 June 2014 at 11:31am | IP Logged | 4  

Overall, maybe the JSA in a fixed point in the past with no present day adventures would be the best answer. But then we're stuck with any kids they may have carrying over and potentially becoming grandchildren in later works, in much the same way Peggy Carter keeps getting booting further & further back up the ancestral line, as we struggle to keep Sharon Carter young & pretty.

Plus, are we good with this solution for Nick Fury & the Howling Commandoes as well? Insisting that their ties to WW II prohibit any involvement in the present whatsoever? Nick & Dum-Dum headed SHIELD in the 60's and no further? Nick and Cap have never met outside of the European theater?

This solution also puts an end to all interplay between the JSA & their JLA counterparts outside of time travel. I'm more or less all for the team being on their own without the drag of having "the kids" tag along all the time telling them (and us) how old and fuddy-duddy they are, but is that what everyone wants? An end to all Barry, Wally, & Jay interaction?

I liked having them on their own world where they could be characters on their own, which this solution would offer, but I also liked the idea of the teams meeting. Should the JLA take annual, or perhaps only occasional, sabbaticals into the past?

Or do we cut the ties completely? No kids or grandkids showing up today. No references back to them except in the most circumspect ways? No "legacy character" taking up the Helm of Fate in modern day, thus creating a bridge between then and now that will only growing longer as time wears on?

Would this solution simply leave the JSA as a novelty act, off on their own, free from all crossovers & tie-ins and therefore irrelevant to many modern readers? I like books and concepts to maintain their own, unique separate identities, but that's hardly the marketing trend the company's seem to be following. Would they do such a book? All-Star Western's off on it's own, isn't it? That's an encouraging note, if true.

Honestly, I'm all for giving this solution a try from this point forward. The JLA/JSA team-ups of my youth are over and done, never to come around again. With the exception of the Strazewski/Parobeck series, Post-Crisis iterations were dreary beyond the telling of it.The current team of Nu52 lame players is painful and twisted (Lois Lane is apparently the Red Tornado in that book. And Superman, who didn't die as we'd been shown, is a murdering bootlicker to Darkseid. Hm. Who wouldn't want to read that?)

A 1940's era JSA with the characters actually exemplifying something worthwhile in the human condition, from an era when comics still seemed to think there was such a thing, would be extremely welcome at this point. 

This may not have been the solution we were looking for all along, but it certainly could be the solution now! 


Edited by Brian Hague on 21 June 2014 at 11:33am
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
Posted: 21 June 2014 at 12:24pm | IP Logged | 5  

I prefer they're "the heroes from twenty years ago." myself.

••

Those stories that came out in the Sixties don't look to me like they happened 20 years ago.

Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
Posted: 21 June 2014 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | 6  

Overall, maybe the JSA in a fixed point in the past with no present day adventures would be the best answer. But then we're stuck with any kids they may have carrying over and potentially becoming grandchildren in later works, in much the same way Peggy Carter keeps getting booting further & further back up the ancestral line, as we struggle to keep Sharon Carter young & pretty.

••

Fictional character don't have children unless some writer decides to make it happen. So the solution there is obvious, right?

Seriously, now, are you guys having trouble seeing the forest with all these trees in the way?

Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
Posted: 21 June 2014 at 12:28pm | IP Logged | 7  

••

Paul Kupperberg's birthday. Years later he asked Julie how the date was picked, and the best our Mr. Schwartz could offer was that it was probably the day the book shipped.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
Posted: 21 June 2014 at 2:16pm | IP Logged | 8  


 QUOTE:
I prefer they're "the heroes from twenty years ago." myself.

••


 QUOTE:
Those stories that came out in the Sixties don't look to me like they happened 20 years ago.

Window dressing. 

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Jeffrey Rice
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 September 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1161
Posted: 21 June 2014 at 10:59pm | IP Logged | 9  

I like the idea of the JSA being from the War. End of story. You have the JLA for today. Can you have the JSA members in present time? Sure, not very active though, except maybe a few magic-based characters. 

Back to Top profile | search
 
Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
Posted: 21 June 2014 at 11:34pm | IP Logged | 10  

All I ever needed to know was that the JSA were heroes of the past,
back together fighting in the present. If there stories were fixed in the
1940's, that would be a fun series as well.

Personally, I think there is WAY too much thought being put into this.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2366
Posted: 22 June 2014 at 1:36am | IP Logged | 11  

If DC wanted to go ahead and do a new Justice Society series set in the 1940's, I would be the first one in line to buy it! Artists like John Cassaday and, yes, Jerry Ordway would make it one of the best things out there.

But that idea doesn't disagree with other ideas presented here that have the JSA essentially being immortal or Earth 2 not advancing beyond the 70's or 80's--they could always have flashbacks to the 40's, 50's, or 60's.

There are three basic factors with the Earth 2 heroes that are appealing:

1. The World War II setting

2. Older heroes being in their 60's or so (Yes, that's actually interesting!)

3. The children of said older heroes--especially the Huntress and (not a descendant but close enough) Power Girl

The Huntress and Power Girl are two of the best characters DC has, but they've both been messed up since CRISIS (when their histories where retrofitted to be the daughter of a gangster and the last survivor of Atlantis or whatever).

Squishing the worlds together in CRISIS didn't work and the New 52's EARTH 2 isn't working either. Our solutions may not be perfect, but they're certainly better than any that DC has given us the last 29 years.

(Though I certainly wouldn't mind another GENERATIONS series by JB either!)

Edited by Eric Jansen on 22 June 2014 at 1:39am
Back to Top profile | search
 
Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
Posted: 22 June 2014 at 4:59pm | IP Logged | 12  

To build on Eric's points:

Ironically enough, Geoff Johns had shown us an updated version of Earth-2 in Justice Society of America Annual #1, which seemed to be stuck in 1987 and featured an amalgamation of the JSA and Infinity, Inc. called "Justice Society Infinity." (Not a great name.) I wouldn't have minded seeing that world from time to time as the "Earth-Zero" version of the JSA faded out of existence. As long as Earth-2 remained stuck in the '80s, then voila, no aging problems.

Of course, the New 52 got rid of all that, as well as everything else about the DCU that I still liked before August 2011.


Edited by Jason Schulman on 22 June 2014 at 5:00pm
Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 7 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login