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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 12 June 2014 at 4:59am | IP Logged | 1  

Race swapping vs open casting... I'm an actor in community theatre, and i was cast in a production of "The Music Man" with open casting. It was in a pretty open theater and neighborhood, but we only had one black lady who auditioned (remind me to rant on community theatre audition processes sometime.)

She was cast as Marion Paroo.

She did a great job, but it was rather interesting to see the dynamic on stage with the family. And almost always, when we met the audience after the show, someone would ask me why Marion was black but her mother and brother were white.

How do you answer that? I tried to make it light... "Oh, she's black Irish." But all in all, it WAS kinda awkward...
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John Byrne
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Posted: 12 June 2014 at 5:02am | IP Logged | 2  

Acting, actors will often tell us when at their most pretentious, is about TRUTH. There is no TRUTH in casting actors from races other than that of the character, and then pretending nothing else has changed.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 12 June 2014 at 6:57am | IP Logged | 3  

I think someone like John Oliver wouldn't consider himself racist nor do I think he's shown racist motives in his critique of a protest about superhero race-swapping. I think he thinks that in essence any and all those protesting possess a pedantry that either at worst intentionally serves or at best unintentionally supports recondite racist motives. But, in my opinion, it's a summarily supercilious posture that itself is at best purblind to how insidious racism can be in seemingly pragmatic, perfunctory ways.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 12 June 2014 at 7:33am | IP Logged | 4  

White guys don't think they're being racist when they turn a White character Black, or Asian, or anything other than White, but they are. What many fail to understand is that distinguishing an individual (fictional or otherwise) purely on the basis of race is racist.

Looking at a cast of characters and asking "Which one can we make Black?" turns being Black into nothing more than skin color. There is no consideration of the very different experiences Black people have in this country, and, indeed, in the World.

If we took a story written by a Black African, set in Africa, about Africans, and arbitrarily turned one of the characters White, there would be (justifiable) outrage. The valid point would be made that we cannot simply "whitewash" a Black character and end up with the same person, the same dynamic, the same presence in the story.

How is it any different to take a White character and paint him/her Black? Nick Fury, to cite but one example, had to turn into a different character when he was painted Black. Why not MAKE him a different character? Give him is own identity, instead of one handed down from on high by White folk? Make him Gabe Jones, or Gabe Jones Jr, or Gabe Jones III, if you want to tie into existing continuity. As the "Everything That's Wrong With..." site so aptly points out, Fury in the Marvel Movies has no depth at all. He is defined entirely by the eyepatch.

And Samuel L. Jackson is okay with this?

(As I have said before, I do not understand why Mr. Jackson did not sue Marvel when they used his likeness, without permission, as the "Ultimate" Nick Fury. His likeness is his brand. Does he feel no need to protect it? Can I make him a character in one of my STAR TREK photonovels and expect no letters from his lawyers? And if I got such a letter, could I not point to the Fury character, and his subsequent endorsement of it, and say "That ship has sailed!")

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 12 June 2014 at 7:47am | IP Logged | 5  

Perhaps at play here is yet again disdain for comicbooks as a genre. This is all such junk anyway -- FUN junk, yeah, but it's not like making Anna Karenina an Eskimo. It's merely Nick Fury. Anybody can wear that eyepatch, so why not a black guy? What do you have against black guys, John Byrne!
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Stephen Robinson
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Posted: 12 June 2014 at 9:17am | IP Logged | 6  

I do think it's so disdain for the source material. I recall an article with
some actors who starred in a reading of GATSBY who had watched the
recent movie and were mocking the changes. They were presented as
scholars. Do the same with DAYS OF FUTURE PAST and you're a
geek.

Edited by Stephen Robinson on 12 June 2014 at 12:03pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 12 June 2014 at 10:39am | IP Logged | 7  

The sad fact is that civilians automatically perceive the movies as BETTER than the comics -- usually without any knowledge of the comics. Recall the reviewers who praised Tim Burton's "vision" for Batman, apparently unaware that he was doing what Denny O'Neil, Neal Adams, Frank Miller and a host of others had been doing in the comics for decades. As far as the reviewers were concerned, Batman was Adam West.

Comics are viewed with disdain, and comic FANS are viewed with disdain. (And given the kind of public representation we get, this is no small wonder.) Thus, if a fan speaks out against the excesses of Hollywood, said fan is immediately identifying himself as a feeble minded loser.

But what's worse is when so-called fans themselves take this position, drinking the Hollywood Kool-Aid and making excuses for the transgressions. Magpies, I call them. As long as what's up on the screen is bright and shiny, anything is acceptable. (Oh, and if you can arrange for Wolverine to say "fuck," then you are a GENIUS!!)

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Shaun Barry
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Posted: 12 June 2014 at 11:10am | IP Logged | 8  


I was just about to post something similar, JB... I can't stand the condescending attitude of the typical Hollywood screenwriter who feels that he or she alone can "fix" everything that's perceived as wrong about the comic book property, while failing to recognize that said property more than likely has at least 50 years (Marvel) or 75 years (DC) of history behind it, filled with a plethora of writers, artists & editors who tried for DECADES to keep the characters on-model and consistent.

Apparently, NONE of the comic book professionals knew what the hell they were doing for all those years. Hollywood is gonna tell them how to do it RIGHT!

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John Byrne
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Posted: 12 June 2014 at 11:53am | IP Logged | 9  

When a property is fifty years old -- take the X-Men, for instance -- it is understandable that a moviemaker would want to confabulate as much as possible, rather than starting on the first page of the first issue. After all -- X-Men again -- most of the characters in that first issue would be unrecognizable to a modern comic fan audience.

Of course, this is where the weird part comes in. Hollywood will tell us that if every comic fan in America boycotted their latest effort, it would have almost zero effect on the Box Office -- and yet they pander to those fans. But they do it in a halfassed way. So they'll throw in some "clever" reference that will get the fanboys swooning, while demolishing acres of property next door. "Hey, look! Juggernaut said 'Im the Juggernaut, bitch!' That's so cool? What? They got Kitty's powers wrong and the actor doesn't really look like Juggernaut (or Kitty)? So what! He said 'Im the Juggernaut, bitch!'"

And civilians, of course, care not.

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Stephen Churay
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Posted: 12 June 2014 at 6:14pm | IP Logged | 10  

What makes me sad about the whole thing is that there are some
really good minority characters not making it to the big screen and not
getting there just due. Like you mentioned JB, with the FF film, they
could've put Wyatt Wingfoot and T'Challa into the script. They
could've filled their "quota" without pulling this.

BTW JB, you'll be happy to know that Marvel has now strategically
replaced the white Nick Fury with a Black one, in the regular Marvel
Universe. So now, everything matches. (sarcasm)

The Nick Fury we've known as a character for 50 years, Now only
exists in back issues.
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Doug Campbell
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Posted: 12 June 2014 at 6:31pm | IP Logged | 11  

Let my comment be prefaced by noting that on the television right now plays the recent version of The Tempest starring Helen Mirren as "Prospera" in the place of Prospero.

These sorts of juxtapositions can provide interesting angles on both characters and stories.  If nothing else, they serve to ask the question of to what extent the race or gender of a character serves as a truly essential characteristic. Is it something that strikes to the very core of a character, or is it something as superficial as hair or eye color?

Moreover, if one is to bandy about charges of racism, one need to be cognisant of how critical questions of power are to actual racism. Groups which benefit from the power structure can hardly be in a position to complain about racism. If comic book characters from the 1960s were 99.5% white, how could it possibly be legitimate to complain that racial swapping is racist if the actual population was only 85% white and wielded virtually all of the real power of that era? The charge only has merit if being "white" is a basic and essential quality to characters such as Nick Fury or Johnny Storm. If not, it is simply absurd.

And if so, what does being "white" mean beyond a certain shade of skin? Is it cosmetic, or is the argument that it corresponds to a deeper set of spiritual or moral traits?


Edited by Doug Campbell on 12 June 2014 at 6:43pm
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 12 June 2014 at 6:57pm | IP Logged | 12  

 Doug Campbell wrote:
 The charge only has merit if being "white" is a basic and essential quality to characters such as Nick Fury or Johnny Storm. If not, it is simply absurd.

Flip that on it's ear.  What do you think the reaction would be if, all things being equal, it were a black character changed to a white one?  I don't ask that question facetiously. Nick Fury and Johnny Storm have always been white.  From inception until the recent Marvel movies and the Fox FF reboot. Just because they don't constantly walk around and talk about how being white makes them who they are doesn't mean that their skin color is simply a default.  


 QUOTE:
And if so, what does being "white" mean beyond a certain shade of skin? Is it cosmetic, or is the argument that it corresponds to a deeper set of spiritual or moral traits?

I certainly hope you're not being serious.  Do you honestly believe that my experience as a white man has nothing to do with me being white?  It's just a "shade of skin"?  That a black, Asian or Indian person would have had the same life experiences if we simply swapped lives?  What I find absurd is the notion that being white is somehow devoid of a set of group experiences one can only have by being white.  
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