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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4622
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| Posted: 06 April 2014 at 12:24pm | IP Logged | 1
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Teeing off on a guy (and his work) to this extent because you disagree with his opinion makes no sense to me. As long as Cho is not writing or drawing Superman, what he thinks of the character should not matter a bit to anyone. Certainly not enough to villify him. Are all comic creators required to love all "classic" characters (or at least publicly pretend they do)? JB hates the Legion of Super-Heroes (a title I love) but as long as he's not writing it and trying to "fix" it, I could care less.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 06 April 2014 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | 2
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what I see is an overly sexualized presentation of women----- Because he draws curvy women with big boobs instead of skinny women with fake boobs? •• I happen to like Frank Cho's work a lot, but to pretend his women are not sexualized -- well, that's just silly.
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Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
L’Homme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7593
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| Posted: 06 April 2014 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 3
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As long as Cho is not writing or drawing Superman, what he thinks of the character should not matter a bit to anyone. Certainly not enough to villify him. ... JB hates the Legion of Super-Heroes (a title I love) but as long as he's not writing it and trying to "fix" it, I could care less.
***
I guess I missed the commission where JB has another hero beating the crap out of the LOSH while mocking and degrading them?
If Cho had just said, "I hate Superman" I doubt I even would have shrugged my shoulders. Especially since I'm not even sure I knew who he was prior to this thread.
But that Superman vs. Batman commission is repellent -- as much for his handling of Batman as Superman.
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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 06 April 2014 at 12:42pm | IP Logged | 4
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I don't mind Frank's opinion, nor his expression of it.
It does sadden me that a wonderful, timeless character like Superman, noble and heroic, is casually dismissed as 'ill-conceived', but I guess that's just me.
I'd draw his adventures with a dopey smile on my face, if given the chance!
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4622
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| Posted: 06 April 2014 at 12:46pm | IP Logged | 5
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Aha. I hadn't bothered to click on the link in the OP of this thread. Didn't realize he was drawing commissions that mock Superman. That is silly indeed, but I still think the reaction of some here is a bit excessive. Lots of creators do inappropriate things with characters in commissions that would be objectionable in official published work, but I wouldn't fault them for doing them in private commissions (for example, nude Supergirls by Jim Mooney).
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 06 April 2014 at 12:50pm
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James Howell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 September 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 363
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| Posted: 06 April 2014 at 12:47pm | IP Logged | 6
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Why are fans so sensitive these days? I don't get it...I understand taking a hobby you love seriously, but this comic book stuff is supposed to be FUN! Frank Cho says he doesn't like Superman, and this opens him up to character assassination? I happen to like his work. His lines are clean, sexy, whimsical and fun, you know...?
Like how comic books USED to be.
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4622
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| Posted: 06 April 2014 at 12:54pm | IP Logged | 7
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Anthony Lombardi wrote:
| As much as I think the first film is a good film. I hated the way Clark acted like a fool.
After seeing those I was turned off until I saw George Reeves as Superman and the Max Fleischer cartoons. I LOVED LOVED LOVED both of those.
I couldn't understand what happened between those and when I discovered the Super Friends. I eventually found out about the Seduction of the Innocent. |
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I don't follow the connection you're making here. Seduction of the Innocent had nothing to do with Clark Kent "acting like a fool." That's the way the character was created, and was consistently portrayed in all comics for the first 45 years of his existence. The George Reeves version of Clark Kent was off-model, a Hollywood deviation from the source material analogous to organic webs.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 06 April 2014 at 12:54pm
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06 April 2014 at 1:08pm | IP Logged | 8
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Clark Kent acted the fool to further distance that identity from his secret identity as Superman. That said, I like both Christopher Reeve and George Reeves's versions of Clark Kent, just in different ways.
As for Frank Cho not liking Superman... Eh, different strokes. As long as DC doesn't let him do a story mocking Superman, I don't care what he thinks.
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Steve Ogden
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1263
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| Posted: 06 April 2014 at 1:09pm | IP Logged | 9
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I lost any respect I had for Frank Cho when he drew this. So tasteless.
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 06 April 2014 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | 10
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I don't follow the connection you're making here. Seduction of the Innocent had nothing to do with Clark Kent "acting like a fool."
~~~~~~~ I didn't say it had anything to do with Clark acting a fool. I was saying what happened between Fleischer and George Reeves and The Super Friends. Clark didn't act "clumsy" during those early cartoons or during the Reeves TV show.
By the time The Superman movie came around the effects of Seduction had been wearing off. So I don't blame anything from the film on Seduction. ~~~~
That's the way the character was created, and was consistently portrayed in all comics for the first 45 years of his existence. ~~~~~
That didn't matter to me since I wasn't aware of it. Rather I should say I came to know there was a comic book but I didn't read it. At the time I hadn't begun collecting comics. ``` The George Reeves version of Clark Kent was off-model, a Hollywood deviation from the source material analogous to organic webs. ````
As far as I knew it wasn't off model. Since it and The Fleischer cartoon were my introductions to Superman. Not the comic. In fact I believe the first time I ever saw Superman would have been on 'I Love Lucy' So to me as a kid George Reeves and Max Fleischer were the on model Superman.
Edited by Anthony J Lombardi on 06 April 2014 at 2:01pm
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14857
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| Posted: 06 April 2014 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | 11
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what I see is an overly sexualized presentation of women----- Because he draws curvy women with big boobs instead of skinny women with fake boobs? •• I happen to like Frank Cho's work a lot, but to pretend his women are not sexualized -- well, that's just silly. ---- I wasn't saying that his women aren't sexualized—I describe him above as a cheesecake artist. My point was that I thought it was odd to call him out for his portrayal of women in a genre heavily criticized for its portrayal of women. I compare him with Adam Hughes. They both draw very sexual women, but not the creepy, plastic, anatomically implausible women that you see from a lot of comic artists.
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Shaun Barry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6905
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| Posted: 06 April 2014 at 3:32pm | IP Logged | 12
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As long as he's not writing & drawing Superman, it's just his opinion.
An unfortunate, poorly-worded opinion, I might add. If it weren't for Superman, there very well may not be a comic book business for Cho to be working in today!
One may not like Superman as a character, but everyone working in the field owes him a debt of gratitude, I think. At the very least, a hearty "thank-you" to Siegel & Shuster.
Edited by Shaun Barry on 06 April 2014 at 3:42pm
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Topic Closed)
