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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 06 April 2014 at 12:16am | IP Logged | 1  

I really hate Frank Cho. I'd barely heard of him until this thread, now I demand he give me back the two minutes I spent skimming the mentally-challenged drivel he spewed in that post.
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Andy Mokler
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Posted: 06 April 2014 at 1:24am | IP Logged | 2  

It isn't that he hates Superman...no one likes every, single character.  It's his mentality and lack of professionalism.  When one reads that quote, it seems to me that there is no other way to come away from it thinking that he's a fanboy and not a professional.

And he's one of the biggest names in comics.  John Buscema didn't care for superheroes in general and I suppose, in particular.  But he was a professional and did some of the finest and his finest work on them.  

Heck, JB only does commissions and work of characters that interest him in some way so choosing not to work on a character isn't the issue here for me.

It's the "Superman sucks, Batman's kewl" opinion being offered by what's supposed to pass as a professional comic book writer and artist.  Maybe I'm holding him to too high of a standard but it certainly struck me as a microcosm of what's wrong with today's comic book industry.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 06 April 2014 at 2:25am | IP Logged | 3  

And he's one of the biggest names in comics.

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He's a popular cheesecake artist who sells covers, certainly. But I don't see how he's representative of or influential in the industry. I still think of him more as the cartoonist of the Liberty Meadows comic strip, and that's how he presents himself. As far as writing the characters, all he's done is an out of continuity Shanna the She-Devil series and a Wolverine/Shanna team-up book, because he seems to like drawing women in bikinis in the jungle.
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 06 April 2014 at 2:31am | IP Logged | 4  

Superman was designed to be a fairly simplistic, straight-forward adventure character with some wonderfully inventive bits thrown in for good measure. Comics themselves are viewed by many as "moronically simple." Simplicity in and of itself is hardly an artistic crime.

I don't think "Liberty Meadows" required much thought at inception either; Standard issue "sexy" shaped character with a couple of Berke Breathed wannabe characters tacked on. Apparently some folks think that's enough. I've never found anything in it to warrant further attention.

The two elements Cho cites as "ill-conceived," kryptonite and the implausibility of the glasses, weren't part of the original package. In early stories, Superman had among his many powers the ability to alter his appearance. In Superman #1, he uses this to impersonate a shiftless football player and disrupt a gambling ring. There wasn't much said about Clark and Superman resembling one another because presumably they didn't. 

In a much later issue Superman successfully impersonates a tall, yellow-skinned alien with enormous pointed ears by using his ability to alter his appearance. At that level, he's practically J'onn J'onzz, and you don't hear a lot of people grousing that John Jones, police detective, and the Martian Manhunter are never seen together...

It was Superman's move to other media that prompted the glasses debate as listeners to the radio wondered why the characters didn't realize they were now talking to the same person they'd been talking to a moment ago, only now in a different outfit. Why didn't Noel Neill notice that Kirk Alyn was playing both Clark & Superman? What is she? An idiot?

Kryptonite of course came about because his power levels rose to the point where something had to be done to give the opposition a fighting chance. If Superman can survive an atomic bomb, then Freddy the Fence or Bredwell the crooked alderman is really going to have bring his A-game to make any sort of dent in Superman's day. From the aborted K-Metal story & the radio program came a workable, dramatic solution. Granted, it became something of a crutch in time, but there's nothing inherently "ill-conceived" about kryptonite, except that it makes the hero weak, an unforgivable sin in many comic reader's books.

Overt emotionalism has a similar effect. Kids respond to characters in an emotional crisis, however, and having the good guy visibly upset on the cover as National occasionally did with Superman raised sales whenever it occurred. So they did it more often. Never to the extent Cho cites, but often enough that he-man fans who want their books unsentimental and edgy, dammit, often have no use for Superman or his corner of the DC Universe.

Just not bad-ass enough for them, I guess, which is fine. The Superman of the era when these impressions were being created wasn't written for them. It was written for kids, who were invited to judge for themselves whether a Superman who cries on the anniversary of his home planet's destruction is a worthwhile adventure hero and whether Superman's disguise was an insult to their intelligence or a fun secret they could share with the character as they read.

Clearly Cho decided one way and I went another. For what it's worth, I thought his Shanna series in which she was turned into a blonde bio-engineered weightlifter with super-strength and a come-and-go wardrobe was a complete waste of time and a dis-service to the character. Can't have complete agreement on everything, can we? Where would the fun be in that?

Robert, are you familiar with the Marty Pasko story in which we discover that the fragments of kryptonian glass from Kal-El's rocketship that Superman used to make his glasses were enhancing his efforts to appear weaker and more frail as Clark by subtly hypnotizing people into seeing his as such, whether in person or on TV? It's not everyone's favorite solution to the problem, but it was out there for those who felt the phenomenon needed an in-story patch and it does bear some similarity to your suggestion.

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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 06 April 2014 at 2:32am | IP Logged | 5  

I think his opinion on Superman is silly, but unless that contempt actually shows up in his work, it's a non-issue. If you want to talk about professional work that shows contempt for Superman, see THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, THE DARK KNIGHT STRIKES AGAIN, and the Goddamned Batman series with the long name. 
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James Woodcock
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Posted: 06 April 2014 at 2:45am | IP Logged | 6  

Don'y forget that he has recently redrawn some Dark Knight Returns pages that really take the mick out of Superman.

Shame really as I think he is a really good artist.
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Andy Mokler
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Posted: 06 April 2014 at 2:52am | IP Logged | 7  

He's a popular cheesecake artist who sells covers, certainly. But I don't see how he's representative of or influential in the industry. I still think of him more as the cartoonist of the Liberty Meadows comic strip, and that's how he presents himself. As far as writing the characters, all he's done is an out of continuity Shanna the She-Devil series and a Wolverine/Shanna team-up book, because he seems to like drawing women in bikinis in the jungle.
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I'm not sure how to measure how influential he is but I think you may have missed some of the work he's done.  He's also worked on the Avengers, Hulk, Spider-Man and X-Men.  Pretty much all the major characters at Marvel in addition to all the cover work.  
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 06 April 2014 at 4:04am | IP Logged | 8  

I'm not sure how to measure how influential he is but I think you may have missed some of the work he's done.  He's also worked on the Avengers, Hulk, Spider-Man and X-Men.  Pretty much all the major characters at Marvel in addition to all the cover work.  

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Yeah, I have most of his work. I'm a fan of his. My comment remains the same. He's not dictating editorial direction like Geoff Johns or Brian Bendis, and he's not revamping the designs like Jim Lee. He hasn't done more than 7 issues of any of the titles he's worked on, and with today's decompressed storytelling, that amounts to one story each for Shanna, Mighty Avengers, New Ultimates, and Wolverine.
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Andy Mokler
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Posted: 06 April 2014 at 4:33am | IP Logged | 9  

Yeah, I have most of his work. I'm a fan of his. My comment remains the same. He's not dictating editorial direction like Geoff Johns or Brian Bendis, and he's not revamping the designs like Jim Lee. He hasn't done more than 7 issues of any of the titles he's worked on, and with today's decompressed storytelling, that amounts to one story each for Shanna, Mighty Avengers, New Ultimates, and Wolverine.
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Dictating editorial direction is one thing and being one of the biggest names in comics is another though, wouldn't you say?

That he apparently has the attitude of a fanboy than of a professional...much like many of the current creators considering what ideas have come to see print, is what I'm criticizing.
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Carmen Bernardo
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Posted: 06 April 2014 at 4:38am | IP Logged | 10  

   I'll just leave it at this and say that Frank Cho is entitled to his opinion. If he acts on his preferences and avoids drawing Superman as much as possible in his work, good. It doesn't really detract from his skills as an artist.

   The preference for drawing big, bosom-y women in bikinis, though... to each his own.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 06 April 2014 at 5:01am | IP Logged | 11  

That he apparently has the attitude of a fanboy than of a professional...much like many of the current creators considering what ideas have come to see print, is what I'm criticizing.

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Is this apparent in his work, or would you only be aware of this if you read his blog?
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 06 April 2014 at 5:04am | IP Logged | 12  

I have no problem with Frank Cho's opinion. The crying comment is just foolish thou. It seems to me that Cho is missing an important factor about Superman. The year the character was created. There was nothing like it at the time. 

So okay maybe now it may not seem that interesting. There are so many more interesting characters than Superman. But their foundations are built upon Superman's broad shoulders. 

Looking at it from an artists point of view. It's much easier drawing something when you have a solid understructure laid out for you. Than it is when you're staring at a blank page.

I'd also like to add I'm not the biggest fan of Superman. It wasn't really to I saw Kingdom Come and Alex Ross's rendering of the character did I actually begin to like the character. I also came to appreciate what the character represents. I can now look back at the older comics and have more respect for the character.


Edited by Anthony J Lombardi on 06 April 2014 at 5:12am
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